tipforeveryone's Blog

I too use cpp and although a bit shaky in understsnding classes I managed to make a couple and all is going well .I like your post.

On 10/7/2019 at 4:32 PM, Slastraf said:

there are still some bugs here and there that just drain your motivation always a bit

This exactly.  There have been quite a few show-stopping bugs for me too.  A character controller that was buggy that still isn't completely fixed (though Josh tried), navmesh generation by code that is broken on large maps (though navmesh isn't even dynamic so it doesn't support basic things like doors opening), glitchy vegetation, broken vehicles, etc.  I used to start a game with fingers crossed that things will be OK.  Now I mostly just use Leadwerks for its clean C++ commands, renderer and simpler projects.  I don't try to do anything fancy.  If I did this for more than a hobby, as much as I love Leadwerks and have been a fan and active community member since version 2.x, I would use another engine as well.

On 10/7/2019 at 4:32 PM, Slastraf said:

I am not a friend of monthly subscription payment for Turbo

As far as I remember, the subscription model may only be here for the beta.  There was talk about it being a one-time purchase on release but I don't think a final decision was made.

I like this thread because we speak about motivation to make a game with Leadwerks and I'm feeling I'm loosing this motivation too.

But not because Leadwerks, because the few bugs you are speaking about can be often walk around (make your own character controller, set the tree a far away to avoid or forgive the pop up effect ...)

I would encounter the same problems I discovered with an other engine too;

The difficulty is the main problem for me, because you should have a team of workers because it is so much work to finish a game properly. Or you need years of work and motivation, with job and family, it is quite impossible, is it ?

Secondly - and the biggest thing for me -  I personally can't hope anymore that people will play my game, supposing the game would be funny, finish and playable.

Why this ? Because this game would fall in an infinity of other indie games and as Hobby game maker I have no resources to make an effective advertising.

There is an ocean of games that are inviting players in all sort of different kind of scenes possible, and you need a great idea nobody does, if you want your game not fall anonymous.

Maybe I would reach a number of hundred players, well, is this really 10 years work worth ?

I'm still working on my dream game but only because I like the challenge to make it. That's enough, but the motivation to finish it may lacking because if you are not ubisoft today, you just have almost no chance anyone notice your game.

It is just like art. If you have abilities to draw, it is fine, and then you see on pinterest that other million people have the same ! lol

 

To play devil's advocate as you have: you don't need a team to make a great and successful game.  A lot of people fall into the trap of wanting to make the next World of Warcraft or Call of Duty or whatever.  You need to either seriously reduce your scope or accept that you won't finish your game (as you seem to have done).  There have been a ton of single-man developers and especially two-person teams that have been wildly successful.  Also, if you have money, you can always hire artists, musicians, coders and others to help.

To address your second point, yes, there's a good chance that not many people will play your game.  Even completed, far more games fail than succeed.  That's the nature of the business.  It happens to big companies too.  Then there are random little games like Minecraft that one person starts as a hobby, shares on a forum or two, the community goes wild and the game makes millions.  There are a ton of factors that contribute to this but a big one seems to be that you're connecting with your fans early on.  Minecraft and Spelunky (original) were released early as hobbies and communities enjoyed them and it grew from there.  Then there are companies you can hire (somewhat like publishers) that can work on getting your game out there for you (just be careful of shady ones that demand too much - I've seen devs screwed over).  How much of the marketing side have you read up on and tried implementing?

I don't want to "advocate" anybody if not what I'm feeling

No you may not need a team but then time. It s not easy near family and job.

21 hours ago, gamecreator said:

Minecraft and Spelunky (original) were released early as hobbies and communities enjoyed them and it grew from there. 

Yes that's the best way that may happen, isn't it ?

21 hours ago, gamecreator said:

How much of the marketing side have you read up on and tried implementing?

lol about...nothing. I wanted to tell I'm not the person for this. I just don't feel good by advertising.

furthermore I have no game ready to sell !

I like the challenge of scripting, animating, seeing things becoming harmonious on the screen, and, if I would succeed to make a bigger project, I would be happy other would play this.

But sorry I'm not the person for that, like I'm lacking in this ability to present things like a customer must think "I want to try it".

There are people (sometimes include ubisoft too  ) that are so good in this that they can sell sh!t for a so good thing, that customers will be disappointed.

Like a little bit seems to be happened with breakpoint ghost recon.

2 hours ago, Marcousik said:

I wanted to tell I'm not the person for this. I just don't feel good by advertising

...

I'm not the person for that, like I'm lacking in this ability to present things like a customer must think "I want to try it".

That's fair.  It's not for everyone.  I prefer developing to advertising too.  But the more people you want to play your game, the more you have to get out there and show it off and remind people what you have going on.  If you never share your game, you'll never get others to be interested.  And it's good to see it that way too.  Sure, some people won't care and won't want to play it.  That's normal for every game, indie or AAA.  But others will.  And those are the people you focus on, who want to hear from you, assuming you have interesting progress to show.  Just be honest about what the game is and what the game isn't.

2 hours ago, gamecreator said:

And those are the people you focus on, who want to hear from you, assuming you have interesting progress to show.  Just be honest about what the game is and what the game isn't.

That's a nice phrase!

One problem remains (of course I know you are not my Psy but thx for reading yes ?)

I'm stil having problem to believe I could make a game better than an AAA perhaps existing yet.

Looking at Witcher, GTA, Watch dogs, greedfall, Gothic and so much more other "perfect" games I think there is no reason why anybody should play my game !

Try not to compare your game to those of AAA studios who have dozens of workers and millions of dollars to spend on development and marketing.  Your situation is different.  But just because a game is smaller doesn't mean it can't be popular.  There are a lot of single-man or small-team developers who have had hundreds or thousands of players, some having made millions.  Even a relatively simple game like VVVVVV sold over a million copies.  Sure, you won't make the next GTA or Witcher because you don't have the resources but you can still make a similar, enjoyable game.

People wanted a new engine so I am making a new engine. It takes years to develop these things. Just switching over to Vulkan took six months to get basic rendering working. Anyone who needs the performance and scale of the new engine is welcome to use it, otherwise I am not going to try to convince them.

I expect that right now is going to be pretty much the lowest point of engagement because we have a new technology that has been a WIP for several years and isn't ready yet. And there is going to be some change in the community because Turbo Engine has a different type of user than Leadwerks has.

14 hours ago, gamecreator said:

Even a relatively simple game like VVVVVV sold over a million copies.

I think that's more or less the idea I wanted to speak about. 

No matter the engine (if it is stable enough of course - and I think LE 4.6 is) you can make a fun thing that other people can enjoy.

All the challenge is to be creative, finding something fun. Because so much content has been made yet. An re-making games other did better yet gives no motivation.

And so the choice of the engine you want to work with has to be in the same line as your game concept requires. If not you are losing your time.

It's like in making music, I can buy more and more instruments (like features or assets) pretending I could do better with, but in reality if I do not master them or just find a good use of them, it stays nonsense. The point is the tools have to serve the ideas, and not the ideas the tools. That could be the reason why for my part and for now I don't need another engine.

Well I already find it a little comedic that my comment criticizing LE game engine got removed so I cannot partake in this discussion. Honestly its kind of sad.

4 hours ago, Slastraf said:

Well I already find it a little comedic that my comment criticizing LE game engine got removed so I cannot partake in this discussion. Honestly its kind of sad.

Since you say it is not acceptable as a professional tool, why are you here? I just received ten orders for the enterprise version from a little company called Northrop Grumman, but I guess you are the expert.

Leadwerks is a great tool, the problem is that a tool does nothing, if there is no one to push the talent, work, development. 

Then any bad worker will blame the tools.  I also rest a while and came back with a fresher mint and I share what some say, learning is my hobby and improving my skills is a challenge that somehow allows me to advance to the next level.  

Übersetzt mit www.DeepL.com/Translator

Sure it's a tool but a better tool gets better results.  If you can write 10 lines of code instead of 1000, that's hours of work saved and usually more likely that you'll end up with something nice to show off.

1 minute ago, gamecreator said:

Sure it's a tool but a better tool gets better results.  If you can write 10 lines of code instead of 1000, that's hours of work saved and usually more likely that you'll end up with something nice to show off.

I agree, and that's why we're not creating video game engines, talent has another for that, all the tools are usually great, but no matter how much I install UDK, CryEngine, Torque, Unity, they don't do anything by themselves. Then comes something that I think, and I can be wrong, make us right on a tool, see its advantages and focus on it, and know how to deal with their mistakes. 

Now, we could be creating games directly from c++ and Vukan in a Visual Studio environment, but for that you need talent, and that's what professional studios and famous games pay for. 

In the end my point of view is simple, I use Leadwerks, because I don't have the talent needed to make a video game engine, or create with other development environments.  Here it's easy, in other parts they throw you an immense api and defend yourself as you can and in the same way you find problems, errors, difficulties, but the question is how to have the ability to solve them.

It's just what I think, and most likely I'm wrong. 

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator