Rick

I think the more this looks and feels like Hammer the better off you are in pulling in that large group of modders looking to take the next step. Keyboard shortcuts are nice as long as they don't get in the way of what people would "expect" coming from similar tools like Hammer or 3DWS. From what I remember the first time I tried to fly around in 3D mode in Blender it wasn't like 3DWS or Hammer and I was shocked and frustrated. Did I read the manual before I started? Hell now. I figured at the very least I would be able to move around with WASD and mouse like like in I've done in 3DWS and Hammer. It seems like Blender just went crazy with keyboard shortcuts and almost makes them a requirement to use which is great once you remember them or take the time to learn them, but gives a horrible first impression. That was my impression anyway coming from Hammer and 3DWS and not a modelling background.

I agree PC's will always be around. About coding on tablets though, I think a new future of programming will need to be created to make it so. You are actually for that future Ken. It's visual programming just like your editor. Take your idea, which you called on the extreme side of DDD, and get even more extreme with it to a point where everything is done visually sort of like you are doing it. That design fits perfect for mobile. Anything typing and I agree mobile sucks, but if the paradigm shifts to more visual programming, mobile with touchscreen will be nice for that. Imagine a nice smooth pinch to scale your buttons and moving them around with your fingertips while you sit in your chair on your deck with a beer in 1 hand and your tablet in your lap. I know there are many times where I'm out and about and would just love to do some visual coding on my phone to test an idea I just got. A least I have to either making a recording about the idea or try and type on my phone

I'd say you're on your way to making the perfect editor! Now if you would allow us to hook into the editor via plugins so we can make custom stuff that would be cool

Oh you meant your editor GUI not your the game GUI? I thought you meant the game GUI was hardcoded which is why I was confused. Makes sense the editor GUI isn't. On your other topic, if I want to run code in a button click how are you doing that without having some kind of function executing when the button is pressed to do whatever needs to be done? Again, this is for the game GUI. EDIT: nvm I see you connect them to states. Sorry saw this at work so couldn't see the video at that time. Just watched it and makes sense now that you connect them to states. Will that work for every aspect? Let's say you have ability buttons in your game that will cast a spell which will tell your player to animate and do the ability. Do you foresee taking the same approach?

We are using Assembla for the source control. Aggror just wanted to use his server for the forums. We still have the google site for this project. This isn't a big road block really, just sucks. Metatron, we are using the SVN option.

Any specific reason you aren't dynamically creating GUI elements this way too? Just didn't get around to it? I am doing that with one of my games and it's working pretty nice. I'm guessing it's because to define functionality you still have to associate the gui element to a function. In Lua this was pretty nice because I was able to give the function name for a click event for example, as a property and it would dynamically link to that. In C++ I had to use a map of gui elements where the key is the name and then in code find those names and map them to clicked event functions.

Fair enough Pixel. You of course are welcome to your opinion. I'm sometimes in the minority myself so I know where that's coming from Also anything I would say about majority doesn't 100% apply to existing LE customer base. There are more potential customers for LE than there are actual members. I'm guessing we don't see anything that Josh is seeing in terms of companies or individuals who email him saying how they would love to use LE but it doesn't have xyz features so they can't do it. He seems to hint from time to time of these messages that he's getting which are most likely 1 of many things influencing his decisions. It sort of sounds like Josh might look at wrapping up LE2 renderer with LE3D which would be really cool and help everyone! As with everything I guess we wait and see what really happens with LE3D. It'll be interesting anyway!

@NA Fair enough. What small devices are you looking at? Phones specifically or you have something else in mind? @Red I guess it was based on my human experience dealing with people and how they talk. If you don't deem that valid then that's that. No sense in going down the road we both know we've been down before.

Very nice Ken. This is how I was doing the GUI in a project I was doing but extending it to most everything is a great ideas! If you had to give a negative to the approach can you even think of one?

@Red, the example I gave was trying to show what I mean. You've never made a statement like that? "Come on, everyone likes pizza". The statement is clearly wrong because not everyone does like pizza. If you haven't used it like that then I guess you're better than I in using the English language.It's just a general statement to represent that the majority does like pizza which I'm sure can be proven by a survey. Didn't LE do a survey of what people wanted in it? I'll see if I can find that to see the results.

Pixel, is it safe to say that LE3D was never for someone like you then and you were never going to buy it anyway? The terrain aspect is interesting because it's 1 thing that you'd have to change a lot of your existing LE related code for because I don't believe LE2 will easily translate to LE3D. Doesn't even seem worth it really because you could make your own terrain routines like you made pretty much everything else right? I'm thinking Benton's "everyone" is basically the majority. You and NA and a couple others who have already made all these extra features LE3D will bring are a very small % of the community so saying "everyone" is a general sense is fairly accurate given that you guys were probably never going to buy upgrades like this anyway. I mean anytime "everyone" is used it hardly ever really means everyone. They are just general comments we all make from time to time. "Come on, everyone likes rock music". For you 1%ers what kind of upgraded LE would you have purchased though? Just the terrain? Bug fixes only to LE2? Are you 100% happy with LE2 and see no need for Josh to upgrade?

You could auto hide the left properties panel after 5 seconds of nothing being selected, and auto show it when something is selected with a nice smooth transition.

I would say LE 3 does provide improved features. He's working on better terrain. It has (what looks like amazing) pathfinding built in. Easier art pipline. Better support for non programmers. Nobody got ignored. All this and it still allows the people the flexibility to have these things ignored (for the most part) if they so choose to do their own thing like NA did. Sounds like the best of both worlds really.

Why not embed it on the left side with the option (and the right side should have this option also) to hide it. Sort of like pinning in Visual Studio does with those side windows.

Yeah, sorry I didn't mean that same exact .NET control, just wasn't sure if BMax had a similar control out there because it's really easy and and you really have to do is give it an object and it'll automatically show public fields as settings in the window. Thought maybe someone in BMax land might have tried to make a similar control.

They are nice, but I found it pretty tedious of a job to get the character gear I wanted. You sort of had to use the naming convention of all these groups to get like "clothes" for the model. I'm not sure if he could have done some type of parent/child groupings by clothing sets, but that would have made it easier I think for that task. The other issue I find is the model is massive because he has all these inside the group. I never tried the whole separate body part models and joining them in code. At a high level I would assume it would just work, but you probably get some clipping or whatever which is where the "stitching" idea comes into play, which I've never looked at doing or know how to.

The PropertyGrid control in .NET is really nice. Not sure if BMax has anything like that but it's very visual studio looking for properties so it's familiar to a lot of people.

So you're basically saying LE2 as it stands is not 'AAA' game ready unless you modify/customize every aspect of it except the renderer (in your opinion anyway, which is valuable seeing as you're the one to likely release an actual game with LE)? That's not very promising for the rest of us schmucks. It leads to the question, how much credit can really be given to LE in NA's game(s) if a large portion of it isn't even really LE? NA, you've made the comment before that LE2 is very capable of making games and to not wait for LE3. But above your saying that 95% of LE's systems are **** when "under pressure" and if we want to be serious about game dev with LE2 that we should write 95% of the LE features ourselves? I trust your word, and hearing this is pretty discouraging. I mean I didn't buy LE so that I could rewrite 95% of it. Can you clarify your statement above more? I like exploring new ways of doing things. It's fun

I think you, or whoever first mentioned the idea of porting LE2 renderer, sparked an idea in Josh and I wouldn't be shocked if he made the wrapper himself to give people this functionality on launch now. It's a good idea to satisfy most people if it works.

It's seem logical to me that since LE2 can't do mobile the majority of the people here aren't caring about mobile that much. No need to really argue over it because Josh has already put his eggs into that basket and it will bring new members who are interested in mobile. I'm more interested in PC but I'm not shutting out mobile completely.

I have an Android tablet that I'd like to try my hand at making a game on so I'll be buying this. I'm also hoping there will be a market for programmers to sell LE components too ,so would like to get into that in the early stages.

With not splitting the forum between LE2 & 3 it'll be interesting to see how the community reacts. I mean I assume a good number of people will buy LE3 and some won't and will stick with LE2. Eventually LE3 will overtake LE2 in questions and posts, basically leaving LE2 people in the dust and most all LE2 responses will be "upgrade". It'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

I guess I would ask you do you know where LE 1 is right now? Probably not right? Even 2.0 because didn't we pay for an 2.x upgrade? Then it would stand to reason that LE 2.x would take on the same fate once LE 3 is out. He's running a 1 man show with an intern. He can't possibly keep up with 2 completely different version at the same time himself. Of course he's said nothing of this, but come on. LE 3 will have bugs when it's first released. He has many more gameplay features that are newer and will need working out and fixing. I can't see him supporting LE 2.x worth anything really. All this LE 3 work will take year/years to iron out all the kinks and I'm sure he would rather he spend time on the new stuff.

This article is interesting: http://thegamebakers.com/money-and-the-app-store-a-few-figures-that-might-help-an-indie-developer.html I think mobile is good for LE business for the pure fact that everyone wants to try and make it rich on mobile so they won't buy an engine that doesn't support it. However, I think the article helps bring a reality to the situation that at first glance looks like a gold mine.

#include <math> and you should have a cos() and sin() function.