Asset store for Leadwerks

[Imchasinyou]

In using other engines, Ive noticed almost all of them have an asset store where models, scripts and other user created things could be sold. Im wondering why we dont have one for Leadwerks?

 

Every one could benefit. The seller/creator could pocket some cash, Josh could benefit by hosting the store and handling the transactions which could bring in more money for further development and the community could benefit by not having to buy things elsewhere.

 

This would make this "easy" engine even better as there are endless possibilities with this. Several if not alot of us have no skill in modeling, scripting or creating shaders and particle effects.

 

Im sure some one would be willing to step up and help out if Josh needed it in setting up the store and I can just imagine that every one here that can script and make models would like to have a few extra bucks in their pockets right?

 

I could easily see the following example using Aggrors GUI

 

Aggror creates an well made GUI and provides very good documentation with it in making it work and implementing it into a game, He sells it in the store for $10.00 USD per copy. This sells 100 copies. This bring the sales for the GUI to $1000.00. For the use of the store Josh would receive 10%, which is $100.00 for further development.

 

Now just think if this was to sell 1000 copies. . . . . . now imagine that there were several good scripts and models that were to sell well. . . . . Imagine the possibilities. . . . Bring in a character creator for the engine as Josh has stated he wanted to do would be so much easier.

[ChrisV]

Is this what you're looking for? ?

 

LE Steam Workshop

 

Not sure if Josh gets a percentage of assets that are sold on the LE steam workshop, though. Also, i'm not sure if we can sell things on the workshop. Josh, can we? ?

[Imchasinyou]

Nope. Ive been through and through the work shop. Scripts are not supported and nothing in the workshop puts anything in any ones pockets. Its user contributed items and there is no cost to use them other than any restrictions placed on the item. Even the old downloads section is all free stuff and many of the items are outdated which leaves me to believe they would no longer function with in the engine.

 

This is why i thought since every one else has a "store" we could too that would put money into the engine and contributors pockets.

 

Think Unity and their asset store. FPSCR has one and they are running on an old build that failed for them. Kind of a rehash. Or as others say, kicking a dead horse.

[nick.ace]

Personally, I think an asset store is a great investment. I was almost drawn to Unity because of it, since it really speeds up development. I still use their asset store for models and such, but I feel that if Leadwerks had one, it would also encourage others to develop and share their work. You see that some members share much more than others, probably because a lot of developers don't really have the time or incentive to modify/prepare their assets for distribution. However, with an asset store, the incentive would obviously be there, plus it would generate more income for Leadwerks as well as possibly bring more people to the engine.

 

This is just my opinion though.

[TattieBoJangle]

I have to agree i would be great to have an asset store users could then sell there stuff and it would be great for someone with no modelling experience.

[Guppy]

Just hoping it will NOT be via steam for these reasons;

• You'd exclude standalone users
  
• You will be unable to sell libraries ( think gui, network, ai tailored for leadworks )
  
• You would have pay tithe to Josh and steam both ( the steam cut is under NDA but assume it's 30-40% )
  
• Any thing you buy you would be unable to modify even if the license allows you to. ( adding animations to model, etc )
  

So for those reasons I'd much perfer to see a store.leadwerks.com - if not we will properly end up each setting up our own shops and such a fragmented system would do more harm that good

[cassius]

As a standalone user I would love to see the old asset store come back. It would reassure me that stanalonerers are not second class citizens.A feeling I sometimes get.

[Imchasinyou]

All great replies so far. I too would stay away from Steam for the reasons mentioned and the mere fact that its not the most reliable system. It is down alot, and the fact that you have to be connected to even use anything from the workshop.

[ChrisV]

Yeah, i agree that an asset store with payed for assets would be good for both the authors of the assets, as for LE in general.

Payed for assets would encourage artists/programmers/sound composers more/faster to create things than just create free stuff.

It would also give them one more reason to create quality assets and keep them up to date or improve them on a regular base.

 

Plus, a small percentage to go into the engine would allow Josh to maybe hire more programmers and improve the engine more/faster.

[AggrorJorn]

Leadwerks had a website store once but it barely got any sales and was removed for that reason. Payed items via steam workshop are simply not possible with Steam atm. This is not something Josh can do and lies purely in the hands of Steam.

 

The most important factors for me are how a user gets the downloaded items. If it happens the same way the current workshop works, then it is of no use. I want people to freely use and edit the things that they purchase.

 

Currently there is no other solution then using your own webshop, which is what I am going for right now.

[cassius]

Why not just use the promotions section . call it assets and promotions.

[nick.ace]

Leadwerks had a website store once but it barely got any sales and was removed for that reason.

 

I'm sure that's true, but that doesn't sound like a good reason. If Josh received a little profit, what would be the harm in keeping it up there? Also, I imagine that Leadwerks is more popular than ever, so this might be a better solution. Also, Leadwerks seems to be more user-friendly now and allow better integration of assets, so I feel that it would only make sense to recreate the asset store. I mean, I look at the Unity asset store, and they have everything from shaders to complete projects available for purchase as well as media assets. If this came to Leadwerks, I think people would be drawn in, both programmers and artists, just from this opportunity as well.

[gamecreator]

Josh's response to "Will we still have the asset store?"

 

Probably not, unless we get to the point where Leadwerks has the money for its own infrastructure and server on the level that Steam has. It's so much easier to just plug into their system. Our DLC sales on Steam are much higher than what we ever made in the paid downloads on our own website.

[Josh]

Leadwerks had a website store once but it barely got any sales and was removed for that reason

I can't keep up with manually processing orders and sending out lost registration keys.

 

The free Workshop is the first step and has many advantages our competitors lack.

• Instead of copying files around on your drive, Workshop items have a GUID (global unique identifier). You can, for example, load a file by supplying the GUID, and it will be automatically retrieved from the central database. The Workshop is like a big shared hard drive we can all access. If you have a script that loads a Workshop model, someone else can copy and paste the text without needing any model files or anything else. The system just automatically retrieves what it needs from the server, as it encounters a dependency.
  
• Because of the GUID, the Leadwerks Workshop allows derivative works. I can use other people's items to build something of my own, and publish it back to the Workshop. For example, if someone makes a turret that shoots enemies, I can mount a few on a truck and publish a zombie-killing truck, without stealing the original author's work. If the author of the item I used updates it, my items receives updates automatically.
  
• Due to the way the files are handled, piracy is non-issue.
  
• You can publish your Lua games to Steam through the Leadwerks Game Player, with no waiting period and no approval process. This lets you get your game in front of an audience quickly so you can start building a fan base.
  

 

The free Workshop allows me to work any issues out before the system is monetized, because people will be a lot more forgiving when money is not involved.

[YouGroove]

Some reasons to prefer standard downloadable assets :

- piracy is not the point as people buying 3D art have money and have good principles

- If you or a team member can't access internet for some time, you can't access your Assets and won't be able to load you level or launch LE3 as it will point ot your last project.

- Launching LE3 is too long when you launch a game that uses workshop items ( it's 20 min im' waiting , LE3 is still loading workshop textures )

 

Now for 3D artists, with downloaded content from standard stores , you can modify the textures, the animations or whatever you want on your purchased 3D models, Instead of having a black box like Workshop items where you can't modify or add anything to a texture or 3D model. Well, that's not always the case but having the source files can be good, specially to make quick variations on textures.

 

Everyone has different needs.

[nick.ace]

Don't get me wrong, I think the Steam workshop and DLC packs are great ideas, but I also feel that a separate asset store one this site would also be a great idea, particularly if you want to appeal to new customers. Also, there are plenty of systems to handle orders without manual processing. I didn't even know people still did manual processing. I'm just saying this because I would rather support Leadwerks than Unity by purchasing assets.

 

Anyway, it's just my perspective on these things because I think Leadwerks has more potential than other engines out there, but some things like this could help it to break through.

[AggrorJorn]

Some reasons to prefer standard downloadable assets :

1 piracy is not the point as people buying 3D art have money and have good principles

2 If you or a team member can't access internet for some time, you can't access your Assets and won't be able to load you level or launch LE3 as it will point ot your last project.

1. What are you saying here? If a person 'buys' something then that person has money. Okay, so what is your point exactly?

2. How is that any different then with other webshops? You still need an internet connection to download them. Even with the steam store you can simple be ofline once you have downloaded the files.

[ChrisV]

1. What are you saying here? If a person 'buys' something then that person has money. Okay, so what is your point exactly?

I think he means that people with good intentions prefer to buy things instead of getting them illegally.

 

The free Workshop allows me to work any issues out before the system is monetized

So, the intention is to monetize it later on? Any idea when this will happen, Josh? ?

And, will a percentage of the sales then go into the engine?

[YouGroove]

I think Leadwerks has more potential than other engines out there

It has potential and it's own market and consumers, but you can't compare with major indie engines driven by entire teams of engineers providing advanced lightening and features/ tools or able to deliver regular massive updates , let's be realistic a little

 

. How is that any different then with other webshops? You still need an internet connection to download them. Even with the steam store you can simple be ofline once you have downloaded the files.

ok, I didn't paid attention to offline and workshop items was not needing internet.

Still without having all source files you can't make modifications to your assets or correct some problems they could have.

 

So, the intention is to monetize it later on? Any idea when this will happen, Josh? ?

And, will a percentage of the sales then go into the engine?

Like others, the engine takes a percentage, i don't think people will sell directly on steam 3D art and collect all the money with Steam percentage only.

[AggrorJorn]

I believe the unity store takes about 30%. And like Guppy said: in this case you would have to pay a cut to both steam as well as Leadwerks, so that percentage might be higher. But that is just speculation.

 

Steam simply doesn't support users to upload payed items for a software package so atm and its probably not something that will happen this year.

[Josh]

It has potential and it's own market and consumers, but you can't compare with major indie engines driven by entire teams of engineers providing advanced lightening and features/ tools or able to deliver regular massive updates , let's be realistic a little

Fortunately for me, software development isn't very scalable. It still comes down to one or two dedicated core people that have to write the thing. As you add more programmers on a project you get a hugely diminishing return. The best strategy for me is to be selective about what to spend my time on, and do it well. I'm perfectly fine with Leadwerks not having the longest feature list, and I hope it never does, because that starts weighing the software down at a certain point.

 

You constantly post in this forum how you Leadwerks absolutely needs various features from other engines, but I don't think I have ever seen you give any credit for the things Leadwerks does that no one else has; your default is to praise any other decision. It borders on spam. Or rather, astroturfing. If Unity or Unreal had built-in Steam publishing, cached shadow maps, or the ease of use of the Leadwerks Editor, you would be making daily posts that I needed to catch up or be left behind, because whatever I didn't do was the wave of the future. But since they are decisions I made, and you don't respect software written by people who actually own the company they spend all their time working for, it doesn't count.

 

Most game engines are at a point right now where they're struggling to find new features that provide a significant benefit. Once you start competing on who can build the longest list of features, it's a downward spiral. I'm creating a different path that will benefit us all, and I think the last year has demonstrated that it's working. You'll continue to see this roll out over the next six months. There are some key features that can still add a lot of value to the user experience, but it would be a mistake to focus on that alone and expect it to drive adoption.

 

Think about another software product, like the BlitzMax programming language. Did it fail to catch on because it didn't have enough features? No, that would have just increased it's maintenance cost with no significant change in the user base. Has Linux remained a small percentage of computers because it was missing some killer feature? It has more features than any OS. You need something else to drive adoption. Usually it's something that sounds kind of simple and silly on paper, but when it's done well people love it, and it's very hard to replicate.

 

Once you get into feature-creep mode you are in a steadily weakened position, because there are fewer and fewer things you can add, but more and more maintenance cost and inflexibility. When someone comes along and does something new, you can't adjust course because your way of doing things is locked in.

 

My goal right now is to help people make fun playable games, using the current feature set. Yes, new features add new possibilities, but we have plenty to work with right now. The point of Leadwerks is to make games, not to be a perpetual research project.

[Crazycarpet]

I agree with Josh, I would much rather have a fair number of quality features then an excess of mediocre or poorly made features. I personally believe Leadwerks does a tremendous job of doing what it was made to do. It is very easy to use and anything that it is lacking (mostly anything) can be written by members of the community. That being said there are a few things I would love to see in Leadwerks relating to Scene improvements such as vegetation painting; but I believe an asset store would over used and eventually filled with garbage.

[Josh]

Yeah, I'm not saying this is a bad suggestion, I just get annoyed when I explain I have something in motion that solves this problem, but it gets disregarded when it does anything better or different than what other things they have seen. Telling me that Unity does things one way isn't a good argument to do something.

[YouGroove]

You constantly post in this forum how you Leadwerks absolutely needs various features from other engines, but I don't think I have ever seen you give any credit for the things Leadwerks does that no one else has; your default is to praise any other decision

 

I thaught major new tools or graphic features to appear after lights and shadows was on the new OpenGL4 version.

You even posted on a thread we started about performance saying it could be possible to make some simple GI solution , but nothing has been announced or appeared since.

I asked features caus i had real project game idea going and i thaught LE3 perhaps going these ways.

With a clear roadmap or clear answers like "not planned" i don't think me or others would ask some more times for something definitively not planned.

 

I also asked lot of times for simple things that any 3D editor have and that makes sense not only for me but for all people using the editor like rectangle selection and many other things, why such small request was simply ignored ?

 

 

I didn't promote as i'm a simple user without any game shipped already, i'm not LE3 or Unity or any engine promoter.

For LE3 unfortunatelly the best i could bring was only some 3D art tutorials, shoot em up kit and some shaders made with shadmar, or some small scripts, i'm more practical in these ways than promoting.

(It's lot more easy clicking on some Steam " like button " than putting lot of hours in some demo game for community or tutorials ).

 

So i use less and less LE3 , still waiting for a performance boost or new graphic system, and i realize it won't come. Lately i tried again on LE3 a real game making , but many things blocked not only performance, or for example encryption packaging not available in Lua edition. So i just let down some LE3 game publishing. You can be rassured i post each time less and less on LE3 forums.

 

But since they are decisions I made, and you don't respect software written by people who actually own the company they spend all their time working for, it doesn't count.

About respect, LE3.0 price was scaled down from 1000$ price to 400$ because many people cried for it, some people like me put 400 $ on LE 3.0 for mobile , and we seen mobile abandonned, performance was asked, it was some LE3 blog about it lot of months ago , but we didn't seen it happen, frame rate is still too slow today unfortunatelly to make a bigger scale game and lightening.

Many of us just did a big work of beta testing for LE3 posting all serious issues , i posted moutains of bugs , you could be gratefull in that way also (We contributed to LE3 maturity that is only appearing today after almost two rought years ).

 

Perhaps making things some more clear could also come from a clear roadmap , voting for bug corrections priority, voting for suggestions priorities ? Clear roadmap so people would just leave or stay depending on what would be announced instead of waiting or asking/dreaming about on forums without having a clear response.

 

I was somewhat stupid to insist asking features or performance , and less clever than some other people that left when they understood the directions we seen was not the ones we hoped.

 

My goal right now is to help people make fun playable games, using the current feature set. Yes, new features add new possibilities, but we have plenty to work with right now. The point of Leadwerks is to make games, not to be a perpetual research project.

So i will not post thousand of posts asking you PBS, GI and many things

I respect your big efforts and work in LE3 , it's just it was not the tool for me even after many tries. I'm pretty happy that you took a totally better way choosing Steam and Linux Kickstarter, this is very very far better than in the old LE2 days. I hope you will continue taking the best way that will benefit you and LE3 , it's only it's not the best choices and directions many of us wanted like a mobile support or different features and tools . So i only wish you to bring great stuff in LE3 and keep find the best choices you think are the best and keep to be successfull.

[Rick]

YouGroove, the thing you have to understand is that if GI makes or breaks your game, then that game was most likely doomed to begin with. Also, Josh has done many performance enhancements and I think it runs good now. In release mode I don't have any FPS issues with my HGT2 project and I have 9 point lights all right next to each other.

 

Josh is clearly trying to focus on things (a main focus anyway) that help you make games. GI doesn't help you make a game. Sure it can make it look better, but show him a game that you need to be made to look better and maybe he'd be interested in helping with the GI. Until then, the price of LE and no royalties is an amazing deal compared to the other engines.