Game and ideas...

[Chiblue]

After reading these forums for a couple of weeks, it strikes me that lots of people are "playing" with the product but very few are actually seriously trying to build a fully functional game...

 

I am interested in hearing from you on what you are trying to do with this product..

 

For my part, I am a FPS era fanatic, COD series, BF2 and BF2142... but after spending a couple of years modding these game engines to provide extended gameplay, I decided to bite the bullet and build my own MP era based FPS... This is a game I am building for the MP PC FPS community to give them the idea game based on thier wants when modding COD and BF...

[gordonramp]

I think you'll find there are quite a few people who are serious about making a game with the LE. The thing is that it can be a large project to accomplish. Personally, I'm aiming at an Adventure game. I'm currently focused on putting together my Engine using the Engine. That is, assembling the code and the assets that are necessary for the project. That includes the Storyline, gameplay etc. So far I'm pleased with the results. I started the same project with Dark Basic Pro and in a few months I've got much further with the LE. and the results look better. It's true that there are dabblers. I guess it depends on what people want to do with their lives and sometimes it's necessary to try something before you know whether or not you want to do it. It's all OK.

[Canardia]

There is also a community game project (MP+adventure+FPS+3rdP+sci-fi), which all LE users can join. It's getting daily new things done:

http://www.siipi.com/lcp1

[Mumbles]

You're not the only one who wants to build an online FPS. But a lot of people here are still trying to get fully accustomed to the engine. Indeed in time, I'm looking at making a few, getting gradually more complex.

 

Starting out with something simple, making something close to counter strike first. Getting the basics of solo and team gameplay working with maybe a small collection raycast weapons.

 

Then moving onto something like Quake, maintaining all of the previous aspects but now adding things projectile based weapons (like a rocket launcher), and maybe a capture the flag mode or something.

 

 

By this point, I would presumably have a quite a solid grasp of the engine, and its capabilities, and be ready to start the game I had in mind all along. A tactical team based FPS (Like SWAT 4 if anyone's heard of that / played it). A game where running around like Rambo doesn't have its rewards, instead relying on good, solid communication and teamwork.

 

 

In short, there are quite a few people here who are in the same position, and just can't wait to get started. Maybe in time, another community project would be started, one thats focused on multiplayer FPS action. For the time being though, there are quite a few members in the community project that Lumooja mentioned. The biggest advantages are that a fully ready game is likely to be complete much quicker than individual projects, and you'll also get to see other peoples abilities, you might see that there's a good programmer there, or a good artist that you want along side you in your project. So whilst there aren't too many fully fledged titles in the works yet, don't give up hope, soon there'll be a few, I'm quite sure of that.

[Canardia]

Maybe in time, another community project would be started, one thats focused on multiplayer FPS action.

I heard from someone just a few days ago that there will indeed be a MP FPS community project launched very soon, I wonder why it's not yet out

 

Community projects are beneficial to join for everyone. You'll learn a lot of things how to make complete games, and you can reuse the code and assets in your own games too.

 

Every single item can take lots of time and thinking to get working right, for example the game updater/launcher, telling the artists how models should be technically set up (pivots, submeshes, etc...) so they work from the technical aspect with the game code, loading and saving of game data, structure of the program logic, etc....

 

So, you don't lose time when joining non-commercial community projects, but instead you win time and can finish your own game faster.

[Chris Paulson]

I have very specific ideas for a game. However I never mention it because I don't want to be yet another indie game forum dreamer. Until I have a very extensive game engine in place I shall not start making a game.

 

The forums are full of - I'm going to make a game like Crysis, but better - oh yeah, dream on. This often comes from people who don't even know how to do the basics.

[VicToMeyeZR]

 

Community projects are beneficial to join for everyone. You'll learn a lot of things how to make complete games, and you can reuse the code and assets in your own games too.

 

Every single item can take lots of time and thinking to get working right, for example the game updater/launcher, telling the artists how models should be technically set up (pivots, submeshes, etc...) so they work from the technical aspect with the game code, loading and saving of game data, structure of the program logic, etc....

 

So, you don't lose time when joining non-commercial community projects, but instead you win time and can finish your own game faster.

 

 

Thats provided, that the people participating don't just upload binaries, to where the members can't actually see any code.

 

Hard to learn from a CP, if everyone still hides their "secret" code...

[Chiblue]

Interesting comments, I agree you see these "I am going to build this or that" from my perspective I have been playing around for 3+ years le is something that I came to recently but I have used many commercial and none commercial game engines out there but le is the only one I have found that does everything I need. I feel that fps is all about gameplay swat 4 and TF are perfect examples of these ok graphics but a great feel to the game. I also hate run and f

gun fps and the reason I nodded cod was to build a tactical realism mod to enforce more realistic gameplay

 

anyway it's alway fun to hear about other ideas.

[Canardia]

Thats provided, that the people participating don't just upload binaries, to where the members can't actually see any code.

 

Hard to learn from a CP, if everyone still hides their "secret" code...

At least in LCP1, you can see the raw files uploaded by the members in each ToDo document they have finished. The final game files come from the launcher.exe, including final source code.

[VicToMeyeZR]

wasn't saying that was happening here. Just ends up a lot of places being like that..

I excited to see where it goes.

[AggrorJorn]

My first 'game' I tried to make with the engine was a ball game. Something like Marble blast.

http://visualknights.com/ball/ball-game.rar

But I never really finished it since I was more interested in a story drive First Person Shooter/puzzeler. This style can be found in games like Penumbra.

[dreamhead]

so like Aggror said,aggror and i ar working on first person puzzel game,with a gameplay style like penumbra and story line like HP,lovecraft story.

[Pixel Perfect]

I'm still continuing to work on putting a game engine together for my game STRANDED. As it's primarily intended to be a single player FPS with some RPG elements it requires some pretty good AI which certainly isn't going to be written overnight ... but is progressing. I have path finding, a player object with full animated weapon support and weapon aquisition and destructible objects. I am now concentrating on getting combat in and am quietly confident that I will have something reasonable up and running in the not too distant future.

[cassius]

I don't really care what other people do with Le. If they want to write a game as I do thats great but if they would rather do tutorials or some le related utilities or just dabble at things in general Thats fine.

[Pixel Perfect]

Very true ... there is no pressure on people to have to write games; they can indeed do whatever they like. It's a free world!

[VicToMeyeZR]

It's a free world!

 

That's not entirely true....

[dreamhead]

now i think that lw needs a game to get the real fire gonig,it wil give way to more tut and new things that will be made for LW

[Canardia]

Actually a game with source code and documented development process is the best tutorial

[Pixel Perfect]

The trouble is you can wait for ever and a day for someone to hand it to you on a silver platter. Some times it's better to just jump in the deep end and swim. You never forget what you've learnt and you completely understand it once you've done it. There is no explicit need for source code and a documented development process as these are already available elsewhere with other engines and games. There has in fact never been so much access to 'how to make a game' information as there is today with web access. If people can't learn from them and adapt it to Leadwerks they won’t stand much more of a chance of adapting anything you do present in the way of a finished game other than changing the assets in it much as we saw with the previous Leadwerks Launcher. You don't have to have written it to understand it, but your understanding is usually much more complete if you have! Everyone naturally wants a helping hand but there really does come the point where you have to just get stuck in and get your hands dirty

 

I have been a member of these forums since LE2 was first released and have seen lots of fledgling community game projects. Every single one has never made it to the point of a finished game with documented code and development process, most never even really got of the ground. My advice is basically... don't wait for things to happen, you could be waiting a long time ... make it happen by doing it yourself and learning on the fly. There really is no better way and the forums are full of people who will help when you get stuck.

[Rick]

I agree. My issue generally comes around gaps in the engine. There are a million different ways to hack around something but I personally hate hacking this engine when a simple 1/2 day fix in the engine would fix it, but the only reason it doesn't get put into the engine is because Josh is the only person working on the engine and he spreads himself thin.

 

This is almost always what happens to me with LE:

1. Come up with game idea.

2. Sketch the major systems out.

3. Get some basic crappy programmer art graphics in place.

4. Start coding only to find a gap in the engine.

5. Complain on the forums about the gap.

6. Someone give a hacky work around solution.

7. Sit on the issue thinking about it for days.

8. Refuse to do the hack because I can't bring myself personally to accept it.

9. Quit project.

 

I'm really working on myself to just do the hack and forget about it. To not dwell on the fact that the hack to fill in the gaps sucks, but to just do it. I'm still complaining about it because at least it can get out there and maybe someday get fixed.

[Canardia]

I tend to have 3 different kinds of moods towards bugs in the engine:

1) Report bug and continue working on other things

2) Report bug, then ignore bug and if someone asks what's up with screenshots, just say it's a bug in the engine

3) Report bug, then work around bug with hacks, and use the hack as standard method in future also

 

I think option 1) and 3) are good, while 2) can get your motivation down since the bug keeps bothering you no matter how hard you try to ignore it.

 

I actually prefer 3), although I think most people would say that 1) is the best option.

With option 3) I can continue working fully on the game, and am not restricted with doing other things only.

[Pixel Perfect]

I agree. My issue generally comes around gaps in the engine.

That's where I think Josh's idea of a community game is a good one. With him driving it hopefully it will come to fruition and some of the problem areas in the engine will be exposed and get fixed. Some are just a question of performance improvements where as others are a little more fundamental. This is a natural evolution for any game engine as some issues do not become apparant until people start to push the limits ... and who better to push those limits than the developer who is best positioned to fix them!

 

I agree with you Lumooja too, in as much that my normal mode of operation is to apply solution 3 whilst opting for 1 as well. The problem with 1 is they don't always get fixed and I have requests for functionality which have been outstanding now for over 6 months and are unlikely ever to see the light of day! So I've settled for second best in some areas which detracts from an otherwise outstanding engine.

[Rick]

So I've settled for second best in some areas which detracts from an otherwise outstanding engine.

 

This is the frustrating part of it all. I think most everyone here has questioned the tasks that Josh has chosen to work on instead of some of the tasks that most of the community deem a requirement. There are many "quick wins" out there and yet Josh starts a community project for what looks like would take 9+ months at least. I understand some of these quick wins aren't exciting but it's these little things that start getting people upset.

[Sooshi]

I cant speak for everyone, but from my experience, examples with in depth explanations are the best way for me to learn. And it saves so much of my time, which is a critical factor when developing videogames.