newbie with questions

[MBT808]

Hello everyone,

 

as the title suggests, I'm a newbie with Leadwerks and have a few questions about it. what are the limits of the engine(IE max texture resolution support, max number of objects or AI, polygon limits, etc.)? do models have to be pre rigged/Given a skeleton and animated outside in 3rd party software(3ds max, blender, etc) or can the in engine model editor be used to handle these tasks? does the engine support any 3rd party software like substance or Wwise audio? is there any websites that have resources designed specifically for Leadwerks?

 

and finally, is there anything or anyone who has done guided tutorials on the engine? I only ask because the tutorials on this website seem a little vague or not walk you through entirely the extent of operations within the engine. If anyone can answer my questions here, I could really use the help.

[cassius]

Best thing to do is take a good look around the editor and see for yourself what it can do.

 

models re made/animated in a 3d app and placed in the models folder, so that when you run the editor they are automaticly converted to l e format and appear in the asset browser.

[mdgunn]

I'd say the official tutorial *IS* worth going through in that it covers a good portion of what Leadwerks does but you will need a bit more....see below.

 

An often recommended set of video tutorial series is this one.

This is beginner level but covers many things.

He also has some C++ tutorials if you have that version.

 

I recently watched another set by Rick (often in the forums) here which shows real time development of a game from an experienced Leadwerks user. The game is just for a game jam but the end result is well on the way to being a decent game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHPP67rJ1Ok

 

These pinned items in the Game Art forum are worth a read (http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/forum/57-game-art/).

Mapping Standards: http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/topic/10016-mapping-standards/

Content Creation Guidelines: http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/topic/14017-content-creation-guidelines/

Blender Exporter (though FBX works well too): http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/topic/10246-official-leadwerks-exporter-for-blender/

Blender & Leadwerks: http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/topic/14215-blender-leadwerks/

 

In general Leadwerks tries to do be a game engine/tool that a single person could concievably master the whole of and produce a reasonable game that will work across desktop platforms (not mobile). It supports open standards rather than trying to do everything well internally. It doesn't try to model and animate but instead supports importing boned and animated assets which you can then tweak a bit. E.g. re-apply materials, remap animations etc.. It does have CSG brush based capabilties which can help to mock up levels and the idea of prefabs (a container of sorts for CSG/object models etc). You can also export CSG, take into modeller, modify, export, bring back in more complex geometry. LUA scripts attatched to CSG or models can then be very easily setup with parameters so you can tweak them in a UI and connect them together with a flow graph editor. Or you can write almost everything in code if you want and have code talk to code. If you have the C++ edition then you can write (faster?) object-oreinted code and hook into libraries that may only exist in C++.

 

In general I think the software does not have any major 'limits' in terms of texture size or model faces but I don't know for sure. It isn't something I've had a problem with. AI you may need to code yourself, depending on what you want to do, though there is some supplied AI which can navigate using navmeshes which the engine builds. If you are hoping to buy lots of complex assets to do the heavy lifting for you and make you rich then Leadwerks probably isn't going to get you that. if you are hoping to be able to piece together a simple to moderately complex game working through simple issues by youself and assistance of the community and freely availble (generally simple) assets and have fun doing so, then Leadwerks is more like that. IMHO of course.

 

I'd be interested to know what you thought needed to be better in the tutorials as I'm vaguely thinking of writing a few (.....erm maybe).

[MBT808]

I'd say the official tutorial *IS* worth going through in that it covers a good portion of what Leadwerks does but you will need a bit more....see below.

 

An often recommended set of video tutorial series is this one.

This is beginner level but covers many things.

He also has some C++ tutorials if you have that version.

 

I recently watched another set by Rick (often in the forums) here which shows real time development of a game from an experienced Leadwerks user. The game is just for a game jam but the end result is well on the way to being a decent game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHPP67rJ1Ok

 

These pinned items in the Game Art forum are worth a read (http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/forum/57-game-art/).

Mapping Standards: http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/topic/10016-mapping-standards/

Content Creation Guidelines: http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/topic/14017-content-creation-guidelines/

Blender Exporter (though FBX works well too): http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/topic/10246-official-leadwerks-exporter-for-blender/

Blender & Leadwerks: http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/topic/14215-blender-leadwerks/

 

In general Leadwerks tries to do be a game engine/tool that a single person could concievably master the whole of and produce a reasonable game that will work across desktop platforms (not mobile). It supports open standards rather than trying to do everything well internally. It doesn't try to model and animate but instead supports importing boned and animated assets which you can then tweak a bit. E.g. re-apply materials, remap animations etc.. It does have CSG brush based capabilties which can help to mock up levels and the idea of prefabs (a container of sorts for CSG/object models etc). You can also export CSG, take into modeller, modify, export, bring back in more complex geometry. LUA scripts attatched to CSG or models can then be very easily setup with parameters so you can tweak them in a UI and connect them together with a flow graph editor. Or you can write almost everything in code if you want and have code talk to code. If you have the C++ edition then you can write (faster?) object-oreinted code and hook into libraries that may only exist in C++.

 

In general I think the software does not have any major 'limits' in terms of texture size or model faces but I don't know for sure. It isn't something I've had a problem with. AI you may need to code yourself, depending on what you want to do, though there is some supplied AI which can navigate using navmeshes which the engine builds. If you are hoping to buy lots of complex assets to do the heavy lifting for you and make you rich then Leadwerks probably isn't going to get you that. if you are hoping to be able to piece together a simple to moderately complex game working through simple issues by yourself and assistance of the community and freely available (generally simple) assets and have fun doing so, then Leadwerks is more like that. IMHO of course.

 

I'd be interested to know what you thought needed to be better in the tutorials as I'm vaguely thinking of writing a few (.....erm maybe).

 

I bought the indie version off steam, I only noticed the professional version after but I looked into it and it said the differences weren't major from what I could understand other than the ability to code with C++. Generally I was considering, if I got could use the engine well enough, to make a sort of remake/remaster of super metroid for fun. The only issue is mainly with models and how to rig/animate them.

 

I am presently working through the Project Saturn tutorial and its a really good tutorial so far. the main issue with the tutorials here I find is they are a bit vague at times and don't tell you a whole lot about how to use everything together within the Engine or take things step by step(pacing more or less, Project Saturn is better here). Also the tutorials in the engine tend to crash it alot.

 

as far as AI, I'm not going overly complex but I would like some tutorials on it.

[cassius]

AI consist mainly of creating a navmesh in the editor and using simple functions lke "Point" and "Follow" which are explained in the api reference.

[mdgunn]

Only difference with Professional (I believe) is that you can use C++ yes, which it sounds like you don't need. Sounds like you are doing 2D side scroller with 3D models? There have been a few of these.

 

Think Angelwolf (http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/user/15469-angelwolf/) did one recently for the game jam so if you're stuck you might want to check with Angelwolf for recent experiences, or just post a general request for help.

[MBT808]

Only difference with Professional (I believe) is that you can use C++ yes, which it sounds like you don't need. Sounds like you are doing 2D side scroller with 3D models? There have been a few of these.

 

Think Angelwolf (http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/user/15469-angelwolf/) did one recently for the game jam so if you're stuck you might want to check with Angelwolf for recent experiences, or just post a general request for help.

 

Yes, that was my goal with this engine to create a 3d side scroller. I tried working with other engines like Unity, Cry 3, and Unreal, but the level of complexity with those engines didn't exactly match my experience level. The major problem I'm running into is that I'm not a modeller and I don't really know how to rig properly in 3DS max, which seems to lack a straight forward guide for doing such things(atleast from what I've seen, still looking).

[Angelwolf]

As mdgunn mentioned, mine is Dungeon Creeper on the game launcher. Happy to help out where possible.

[mdgunn]

Yes, that was my goal with this engine to create a 3d side scroller. I tried working with other engines like Unity, Cry 3, and Unreal, but the level of complexity with those engines didn't exactly match my experience level. The major problem I'm running into is that I'm not a modeller and I don't really know how to rig properly in 3DS max, which seems to lack a straight forward guide for doing such things(atleast from what I've seen, still looking).

 

You're situation is quite typical of many LW users so don't worry. Many people would use a 3rd party model for a character model and then may model some of their own simple assets, or get them from elsewhere. Get familiar with the Workshop and what is in there. Some things (e.g. post effects are almost essential in most projects).

 

A character model could probably be updated later on without it totally breaking your game as long as the models have similar animations (the names don't need to be the same or anything - you can remap animations at any time). So don't let the lack of a perfect model stop you prototyping out your idea. At the end of the day it will largely stand or fall on the gameplay over the model quality.

 

Arteria 3D are often used for LW models and I've heard Unity models work quite well so buying or using Unity assets is a possibility. Try some free ones first if possible. In general if you can get an animated model in FBX format you should be able to use it.

 

You could try looking through the gallery for people who seem to be highlighting models (in which case they may be showing a model they've made and you may be looking at someone who has some model specialisation - there are a few people).

 

Good luck.

[MBT808]

As mdgunn mentioned, mine is Dungeon Creeper on the game launcher. Happy to help out where possible.

 

Thanks, i will definitely keep that in mind when I feel confident enough and finish the tutorials to start my own.

 

You're situation is quite typical of many LW users so don't worry. Many people would use a 3rd party model for a character model and then may model some of their own simple assets, or get them from elsewhere. Get familiar with the Workshop and what is in there. Some things (e.g. post effects are almost essential in most projects).

 

A character model could probably be updated later on without it totally breaking your game as long as the models have similar animations (the names don't need to be the same or anything - you can remap animations at any time). So don't let the lack of a perfect model stop you prototyping out your idea. At the end of the day it will largely stand or fall on the gameplay over the model quality.

 

Arteria 3D are often used for LW models and I've heard Unity models work quite well so buying or using Unity assets is a possibility. Try some free ones first if possible. In general if you can get an animated model in FBX format you should be able to use it.

 

You could try looking through the gallery for people who seem to be highlighting models (in which case they may be showing a model they've made and you may be looking at someone who has some model specialisation - there are a few people).

 

Good luck.

 

Is there any specifics on how things need to be done to work within leadwerks?

 

I might as well ask now, but is there a way to allow(or a plugin) MP4 files to work within leadwerks?

[mdgunn]

Thanks, i will definitely keep that in mind when I feel confident enough and finish the tutorials to start my own.

 

 

 

Is there any specifics on how things need to be done to work within leadwerks?

 

I might as well ask now, but is there a way to allow(or a plugin) MP4 files to work within leadwerks?

 

There are a few approaches that might work. Some people might like to know that they have assets that are going to work for them so they get this detailed work of sorting out engine working characters early. However if your new to game dev I would suggest working with assets from the workshop and just getting a game done and under your belt.

 

A good way is to build your game from simple to complex. Personally I try to split everything down into tiny chunks and make sure I can do that thing in isolation on a bare bones map. Literally a cube for a floor with the generic FPS prefab dropped in it. Maybe I'm creating a teleporter or something. Once you have the thing working you can save it out as a prefab and bring that into your main level map. For level maps a possible approach is to 'block out' the level very roughly and quickly with CSG, apply materials and align them to faces then add in external FBX models (chairs, pipes etc) and creatures. It is also possible to export the CSG to a file which you can take into a 3D program then bring it back in as an object. Lighting is probalby best left till late in the map development. You may need to fine tune the amount of lights and the types to retain performance (only some lights should have dynamic shadows).

 

Try to make your first games ones which will not run into performance issues so much anyway, e.g. an 'outdoors', maybe abstract game were there is maybe only 1 light or few. Keep mechanics simple. Better to do multiple short games than 1 big one. Each can tackle different aspects of a bigger project you may be working towards (e.g. something with an inventory, somthing with a better UI, something with more complex lighting etc.)

 

Personally I try to keep any scripts or prefabs etc I create separate so I can easily copy just those folders around if I want to put them in a new project.

 

As far as MP4 goes....you mean for videos? I can't remember if Leadwerks supports that and I couldn't find the list of supported files, but I think it does not (which may be why you're asking)? It will play video files, for cutscenes or whatever (I believe) but you may need to convert to a supported format.

 

When using C++ things are a bit more open as you are essentially using Leadwerks as the core of your game and you can wrap whatever other libraries around it (e.g. extra file type support). So you're game might load the video and play it, then talk to Leadwerks to launch a map. If you're using LUA then you're more 'within the engine', sort of anyway and are more reliant on what it exposes to LUA. You can use LUA libraries to gain some functionality but I think they have to build on what is there (e.g. maybe some AI routines) rather than allowing support of file types not supported by the core.

 

I'm not sure I explained many things well just now so if you've got further questions I'll try and make things a bit clearer.

 

The forum has a handy chat feature (bottom right). So if I'm around you can get in touch that way if you want. Providing I'm actually at my machine and not just lurking . I'm on UK time and am most likely on in the evenings.

[MBT808]

come across a problem during the saturn tutorial, it seems as though the barrel just phases through stuff and I don't seem to have the set shape option as shown. Is this normal and is there a way to get it to work?

[Rick]

It moved to the model editor. Double click the mdl file in the assets window and in this model editor there is a physics menu option. Things have changed since a lot of these video tutorials.