Beginner needs some help to get going

[helmers]

Hi,

 

first I want to provide you with a little bit background of me, so you can perhaps understand my problems better.

 

I found the LW engine last week during my easter holidays. Sadly the evaluation framework told me nothing about the programming side so I bought it right away. I have my own game engine done in XNA (using Sunburn for the graphics part) and now want to switch to LW because it seems to offer a more complete and easy to use system and the demo pictures are simply superb! But of couse I want to stick with using C#.

 

I started the last three days to extend the C# wrapper from UBU, mainly with providing all the classes and methods with XML help from the LW WIKI. Its painfull an boring work but I thought that this would be a good way to get a deep overview about the API.

During that I stumbled about some things that now bother me:

 

 

1. Is it really true, that you can use only 5 texture layers on terrains!!!!

This is major topic for me! In the game I want to make (a medieval/fantasy third person RPG) I definitly need more that five ground textures. Forest floor, grass, rocks, field and river/lake floor, then I run out of options. I may be able to use roads for the paths, but this would make irregular places impossible. Anything more seems not to be possible.

Please tell me that I have understood this wrong. That I can either use more layers or can devide up my world in several tiles with their own layers each. I think in the demo pictures on the web site there are more then 5 layers used or are those enhanced by meshes?

 

2. Only one terrain at the same time?

If you can display and use only one terrain at the same time then building a continous world which loads the next 'tile' in the background seems impossible. Have I read this correctly or am I wrong (hopefully)?

 

3. Currently there is no description for the editor (all links lead to a non existing document).

Could someone please tell me how to use my own textures for terrain layers? Currently the box only offers me the preinstalled ones.

Also a description of the editor would be nice. I do like to read the manual before using complicated things (Ok, well, maybe not always!).

 

4. Scaling problem.

My 'world' is about 800m by 800m. The terrain does not need to be bigger. But I would like to use the higher resolution (up to 4096) to make it more detailed. Currently the editor does not allow values below 1(m) per pixel/vertex! Is it possible to scale the terrain? I need to use the resolution for finer details than 1m. of couse I can pretend that 1 unit is 20cm but then I have to make my characters 9.0 units big and it is simply difficult to always have that factor in mind when doing asset modelling and level assembling. I have also heard rumors that some physics system have difficulties when not used within certain scales.

 

5. Direction of waves.

Is there a way to control the direction of water waves?

 

6. What is the difference between Pivot and Group?

 

The first four points are the source of my current worries because it seems that I can forget to use LW engine for my project.

 

I hope someone can help me with my problems.

Thanks in advance!

[Marleys Ghost]

1. yes its true.

 

2. I think its only one at a time, not 100% sure but sounds right. (could be wrong)

 

3. http://leadwerks.com/werkspace/index.php?/page/resources?record=16

 

4. I dont think a value below 1 is possible. (could be wrong)

 

5. The current water is an animated texture/shader type. So only if you write a new one. (could be wrong)

 

6. http://www.leadwerks.com/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Groups

http://www.leadwerks.com/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Pivots

[Canardia]

1. You can use 16 vegetation layers on top of the 5 terrain layers. You should barely see the terrain texture in well designed maps anyway, since the ground should be full of stones, leaves, branches, flowers, grass, etc... and the rest is covered by models like rocks, trees, cliffs, etc...

[wh1sp3r]

1. you can use decals for small areas with different textures too there is lots of ways

[helmers]

At first thanks for the first bunch of answers.

 

@Marleys Ghost:

1. Is there a plan to add support more layers in the future. I think that is something to put in the Feature Request Forum (if not already requested)

2. OK, then only one terrain. I think I then have to live with the rather course ground and can not get around the other problems by simpling dividing up the terrain.

3. Thanks a lot for the manual. I have not known that there exists any! Perhaps the link in the Sandbox editor should post to this page! That answers my problem how to get my own textures into the terrain texturing system!

4. OK another restriction then. I will have to make my terrain with 1024 and 1m resolution. That will probably be as close to my requirements as possible. Definitly another point for the Feature Requests section

5. OK, some task for the future.

6. Yes I have read those already (Ok not the Pivot one as there is none.), but so both can structure entities in hierarchies and move those together but only Groups are evaluated for visibility down the hierarchy?

 

@Lumooja:

Hmmm, cover everything with vegetation. One layer is equal to one model (with his LODs). I can not provide a mixture of models for each layer (e.g. 10 different tree models of the sam species with some bushes and some ground cover), can I? If I have to use up one layer per model then I am running out of vegetation layers even before the texture layers!! Oh Oh.

 

@wh1sp3:

Ahhh, Ok that might be a creative solution. That might be possible at one place or the other.

 

 

Again thanks for the help. I feel a little bit better now. Sadly easter is over and so I have to file my feature requests as a wishlist for christmas

[Josh]

Don't use groups for anything. An octree has been implemented for version 2.32.

[Masterxilo]

1. Yes.
   
2. Yes.
   
3. Already said.
   
4. The terrain can actually be scaled to any size. The input box in the editor is just wrongly set up as it seems.
   In the code, the command would be:
   

   ScaleEntity(terrain, Vec3(800.0/4096, MAX_TERRAIN_HEIGHT, 800.0/4096));

   
   to scale a 4096 terrain to 800.
   

5. You'd have to write your own shader.
   
6. Obviously, you can forget Groups. A pivot is just an invisible Entity (can be moved etc. and have child entities).

[Josh]

1. Is it really true, that you can use only 5 texture layers on terrains!!!!

More are being added, but it's more important to make sure existing functionality works correctly first.

 

2. Only one terrain at the same time?

If you can display and use only one terrain at the same time then building a continous world which loads the next 'tile' in the background seems impossible. Have I read this correctly or am I wrong (hopefully)?

You can go as big as 4096x4096. This is more than enough for most games.

 

4. Scaling problem.

My 'world' is about 800m by 800m. The terrain does not need to be bigger. But I would like to use the higher resolution (up to 4096) to make it more detailed. Currently the editor does not allow values below 1(m) per pixel/vertex! Is it possible to scale the terrain? I need to use the resolution for finer details than 1m. of couse I can pretend that 1 unit is 20cm but then I have to make my characters 9.0 units big and it is simply difficult to always have that factor in mind when doing asset modelling and level assembling. I have also heard rumors that some physics system have difficulties when not used within certain scales.

The editor uses a range of parameters most people would use. It is not advisable to try to make such high-detail terrain like you describe. Tessellation would be a more appropriate approach, but that's not supported yet.

 

5. Direction of waves.

Is there a way to control the direction of water waves?

Water waves are designed not to have any discernable direction at all, so no.