LESDK 2.32r5

[Josh]

This includes a beta of Dave Lee's the Zone scene:

http://leadwerks.com/werkspace/index.php?/topic/2065-lesdk-232-r5-link/

 

I had to use an alternative download method due to the problems we have had recently with large downloads.

[Guest Red Ocktober]

This includes a beta of Dave Lee's the Zone scene:

http://leadwerks.com/werkspace/index.php?/topic/2065-lesdk-232-r5-link/

 

I had to use an alternative download method due to the problems we have had recently with large downloads.

 

 

download came across fine (just a few minutes ago)... editor looks good and seems stable...

 

Dave's level is impressive... as expected... (why all the physics stuff left out? )

 

looking at it now... good first impression...

 

 

--Mike

[Masterxilo]

r5?

Maybe 2.32 should have stayed in "beta" a little longer.

But that's also just a name.

Looking forward to trying this out.

[Michael Betke]

I prefer regular updates. From R4 on it was in a good usable state judging from my field of work.

[ESP]

Loads fine here, although the frame rate on loading the editor has dropped from 90-100 fps to ~20

 

On loading 'the Zone' the editor quits without any errors.

 

Robin

[gordonramp]

Download works fine.

[Pancakes]

yeah, the performance of The Zone concerns me a little bit. Of course the details and stuff is very very high, but it seems to me as if the occlusion culling isn't performing at MAX yet. As I recall there have always been occlusion culling issues at least from a year ago.

 

I wonder what will happen when you add 5-6 animated characters on screen at once with logic and physics. But honestly I think the real issue is the occlusion culling. I tried going inside of buildings and I never got the impression that the occlusion culing was kicking in.

 

Blender game engine has occlusion culling, and if I walk into a building you can really tell a very obvious difference that the culling is active. Not here. And I've mentioned the occlusion culling a year ago.

 

Hopefully this doesn't come across in a negative way I'm just stating my observations. I have a pretty fast PC and I was getting 18-23 fps @ 1680x1050

[Josh]

Turn off SSAO and godrays.

[Pancakes]

Turn off SSAO and godrays.

 

No way... how can you say that Josh? People don't buy GTX 275s just so they can turn off SSAO and godrays

 

But still I've seen more aggresive occlusion culling in CryEngine2 and Blender game engine. I guess that's where my reference point is from. If I turn around inside of a building it seems like it draws everything beyond all the walls. But I've seen occlusion culling where that doesn't happen in the 2 engines that I mentioned in this post.

 

To me occlusion culling is just as critical as lighting in terms of level design

 

Honestly for my demo I'm making smaller sized scenes which is why The Zone's occlusion culling situation has kind of caught me by surprise. I don't want to sound like a broken record but I don't think it's the shaders I think the occlusion culilng isn't as awesome as it could be. I mean in Cryengine and Blender you can tell that it's working. Here it only seems to kick in when I look straight up at the ceiling.

 

I have some time this weekend I will try to make some comparison videos to show what I mean.

 

btw I'm not just being difficult, but the shaders don't have much effect on my machine's performance which is why I said what I said really. I gain about 3fps when I turn off SSAO and godrays. It just doesn't seem worth it to me.

[DaveLee]

Keep in mind that this is still a beta version, and I haven't optimized anything yet. Quite a few assets have large textures that will be downsized slightly in the end, and about there are almost no LODs created for my assets yet. All of these will be present in the final version.

[ArBuZ]

Hi. Just tried new LE version. The zone is great!

 

The one thing that Iv noticed is some problem with lights. When I look at some light and then turn out from it the light switches off. And when I turn back to the light its turned off for a second or less and then it turns on. As I understand its some kind of optimization, but this is very noticeable.

 

Also only with this scene I finally could see the bloom and HDR effects in action. And actually I can't understand how does it exactly works. Is there any info to read about them?

[Michael Betke]

yeah, the performance of The Zone concerns me a little bit. Of course the details and stuff is very very high, but it seems to me as if the occlusion culling isn't performing at MAX yet. As I recall there have always been occlusion culling issues at least from a year ago.

 

Indeed. Leadwersk is lacking there a lot if you compare it to occlusion in CE2.

You don't see in wireframe mode if an object behind a wall is occuded or not because wires are displayed every time. I have the feeling there is no occusin happening.

In CE2 you have simple occusion proxies in your models. A plane in your wall for example. If you stand right before the wall you see your FPS going up a lot. In Leadwerks nothing happens.

 

Terrain occusion is also not functional/present. It's not possible to use canyons/hills in a level to gain better performance with a clever layout.

 

Dave could put more walls on his flat terrain and get more performance. The level seems to be quiete well optimized to me.

He has very low distance for gras cover and lights. The vegetation density/complexity is not that big. Billboard distance is short. There are no decals in the level whichwould add to overdraw.

So I think there's not much to turn down except post-shaders or

I get with my 285GTX around 14-20 fps with all settings maxed out (1600x1050px res).

 

So I guess those projects will tell where Leadwerks has to improve further and not just tell people with top-notch hardware to turn down their settings.

Gamers won't accept this.

 

I can clearly remember the bashing on CE2 because people were not able to play it on may back in 2007 even with enthusiast config. This bashing ruined CE2 and Crysis reputation and even now people are speculating if Crysis 2 will run as worse as Crysis back in 2007.

[Raul]

I have stayed away from 2.32 but I really want to try The Zone Thanks for this opportunity guys

 

EDIT:

The map is awesome

[cassius]

The zone is very good but its another walkaround a terrain. Can we have something like a mini game with some "game" incidents in it?

[Josh]

To do that properly, we really need 3.0.

 

The goal with LE2 is to provide the commands you need to write a game. If we take it further than that, there will be problems. I learned from when I used to provide a more complicated FPS script that any code I release tends to get treated as final game stuff, when I just intended it as an example of what you might do. If I were to make a more complete game example, the next step would be feature requests for everything to be added to that example. I also don't think it would gt modified much, so it wouldn't be that useful to many people.

 

When we're dealing with really high-level game behavior, the ability to exchange and share code becomes important. We've made a lot of progress in that direction with Lua, but I think Rick's idea about attaching multiple scripts to entities will really finish that off, along with the flow graph editor. We'll provide a framework of interactions you can work within, so it will be easier for people to write and share code.

[Pancakes]

 

When we're dealing with really high-level game behavior, the ability to exchange and share code becomes important. We've made a lot of progress in that direction with Lua, but I think Rick's idea about attaching multiple scripts to entities will really finish that off, along with the flow graph editor. We'll provide a framework of interactions you can work within, so it will be easier for people to write and share code.

 

hells yeah

 

I've seen various flowgraph implementation. I sincerely hope you completely rip off CryTek though. I mean down to the letter. Their's is the best that I know of anyway. There are many others that are either too base (C4) or two eccentric (some other proposals I've seen). CryTek's hits the mark. Pairing nodes for logic and then xml data sheets as I recall for custom variables and the like. I never say this sort of thing. But just rip em off.

[degac]

Hi Josh

Everytime you spoke about LWE3.0 you add 'something new' and many of these things are not related (to my interpretation) to a 'pure 3d engine'.

I'm one the people who like to make a game with the 'commands' not with an editor. I really dont' want that LWE will become a '3d-game-creator', like your last posts seems to indicate. We'll see.

 

To come back on topic about rev.2.32.5 I still have not noticed improvements in the culling (that's no way to determine the numbers of polygons/entities drawn on screen).

As said in another post I have a FPS drop in the editor of about 25-30% (maybe it depends on some new features in the editor, or by the culling routine or by vegetation layer, I really dont' know).

I wish a way to turn on/off the culling if this doesn't offer tangibile improvements (also for vegetation-collision layer).

Cheers