..tutorial or blog..

[Naughty Alien]

..hi guys..this is actually repetition of same post i did few days ago, but unfortunately , lost due server transition, or something like that..anyway, I just wanted to see, how big interest is in need for in to small details tutorial/lessons about pathfinding, from creation of navigation grid, up to algo using it for purpose of pathfind. Eventually, later some lessons will be for tweaks, tips, etc..Actually, I wanted to cover some nice and in depth lessons about Pathfind, automatic GUI/HUD system, automatic animation system, etc, basically complete guide how to build any of those libs in such fashion that, all you need is to LOAD data and once done, its all running, updating, adjusting on its own, while easy accessible for any other use in some new libraries of yours. So, based on your response I could write a bit faster and with more passions in to it (i mean, why even bother if nobody needs it, right? ) .. so, just feel free and let me know what you think of it..any use, yes or no, and eventually your wishlist, what kind of tutorial/lesson and about what, you would like to see..language of choice will be BMax...thank you in advance guys, for your inputs..

 

EDIT:

Just to clarify that use of Bmax will have no impact (I think) because , idea is to create those systems with almost NO engine API related commands, in order to be able to use that pretty much everywhere, so, of course, some engine commands will be used but really, those you will find in same form on pretty much any other engine (base for this claim came from few engines im very familiar with, Phyre, LE, Horde3D and Hadd3d)...whole Type data structure will be composed in very simple and basic clean form, so i really see no issue in proper translation or rewriting whole thing in to any language, long as idea and concept behind are understood (thats why people need tuts)..anyway, we will see

[gordonramp]

Hi Naughty,

I realise you are using BMax and that would be your language of choice for a lesson but BMax users are a small percentage of Leadwerks Users, so I think do it in Lua so that everyone can benefit from it because the Editor uses Lua and other languages are interpreted from there.

[macklebee]

I think thats being a little demanding, gordon. Bmaxer's have had to learn majority of the LE tuts by converting C++. I guess you are implying that c++'ers are too stupid to be able to convert the other way? Just kidding... besides it should not make a difference what language he uses, since the theory and methods should apply to all. And if he is willing to part some of his knowledge and expertise on the forum, one shouldn't be so unappreciative. Convert it to lua yourself.

 

I would love to get NA's insights on navmesh creation, pathfinding, GUI/HUDs, animation, etc...

 

Any language and delivery method that is the most comfortable for you NA would be my vote. Have you decided to do it as a blog or a PDF tut file? A PDF tut would be my recommendation on delivery method just so we could have something downloadable available for the next time the server craps out.

 

 

+50 to NA for this!

[gordonramp]

Besides it should not make a difference what language he uses, since the theory and methods should apply to all.

Then you won't mind converting it to BMax will you (also your language of choice)? No, I'm not demanding at all Mack.. Just hoping to save myself (and others) a whole lot of work and to be able to takle it in a language I can understand at least a little.

[macklebee]

Actually I use bmax and lua... but thats not the point.

 

The point being that he is willing to do this out of the goodness of his heart and take time out of his life to provide us some very useful help, and his first response is for him to do it in another language not of his choice?

 

Him giving you his insight and experience on these matters should be what you are wanting to get out of this... that alone will save you alot of work... Because right now, we do not have anyone else thats even willing to give us this kind of expertise, much less in a tutorial form.

 

EDIT-- if it makes you happy, I will be more than willing to help you convert whatever you want to lua.

[gordonramp]

Because right now, we do not have anyone else thats even willing to give us this kind of expertise, much less in a tutorial form.

I agree (although Aggror is making an excellent effort) and I admire the goodness of Naughty's heart.

However, his original request was/is to give our opinions on what we thought and I have honestly given mine, Lua would be great Naughty Alien but if Mack gets his way and the lesson is in BMax then I look forward that too..

[macklebee]

but if Mack gets his way and the lesson is in BMax then I accept that too..

 

This was NA's language of choice... but whatever.

 

And while I do appreciate the work Aggror is doing for the community, the level of expertise that NA is willing to provide is well above basic commands/ideas that one can do in lua. This is advanced stuff he is willing to give advice on that few people in this community can actually do in any language.

[gordonramp]

Hence my suggestion that it be in Lua.

[macklebee]

If he does it in lua, then someone will complain that its not done in c++ or bmax or c# or delphi. I have made that argument as you have in the past and realized it was selfish on my part to even suggest to someone that is willing to do this for free to provide it in the language of my choice. Besides, I learned more from converting code than just copying and pasting.

 

And he really wasn't asking what language he should do it in, but whether or not the community as a whole felt there was a need for a tutorial on this kind of advanced topics. And whether or not he should do it as a tutorial or blog (hence the name of the post). And I wholeheartedly agree that this kind of expertise/knowledge is not only beneficial but necessary if we expect the LE community as a whole to grow past just doing spinning cubes and sparse scenes with no game mechanics. Very few people here are in the position that NA is in to provide such insight, much less willing to provide a tutorial out of the goodness of his heart.

 

Bottom line: if the information is there for everyone, there are enough people here that can translate his knowledge into other languages and I am sure they would be willing to do so. This is very much like requesting that there be a german section in the forum. There is no need when there are plenty of people willing and capable to translate. Naughty Alien's choice of program language should be whatever is most comfortable for him to supply the information through to us.

 

Sorry NA for taking your post so far off topic that your questions are being lost. Yes, this community needs this type of advanced information and we would appreciate any help you can give, whether its in a blog or tutorial form.

[GIMPY73]

A very kind offer NA

 

I think it would be great if you did a tutorial on anything.

 

I agree with Mack , this would benifit the whole community , no matter what language it is done in

 

 

PS: (im a BMax user hint hint )

 

Thanks

Gimpy73

[Josh]

I think this is a great idea. A simple example of actual gameplay would be nice. Just the process of making some characters run around and fight or interact is a good learning example.

[Pixel Perfect]

The expression 'Don't look a gift horse in the mouth' comes to mind! This is extremely generous of NA to offer as I know how long this would take me to document with examples and that's without having to convert it to another language. Apart from that Lua is also probably unsuitable for certain elements of this due to speed restrictions.

 

Are we any closer to seeing all this in action in a clip from your game though NA? Yours appears to be by far the most advanced game in production (certainly that I'm aware of) and I'm really looking forward to seeing some real footage

[Roland]

First of all I want to really encourage this good imitative by you NA.

Your knowledge would surely help many of us from just 'poking around'

to actually make something usable.

 

The best tutorial serial I could think of is one that shows

how to make something usable from scratch to goal. This could

be a very simple level but well done. A level that includes

the most common things that is needed such as those you are

mentioning. The tutorials could then show different techniques

as they need to be implemented for this level.

 

The end result would then be a simple playable level.

This Game Tutorial could be divided into a number of steps

where you go from "the empty screen" to the end result.

 

This way many techniques could be shown as separate

sub tutorials along the way to reach the final goal.

Also then each of them would fit into a bigger picture

and would follow a red thread aiming for the end result.

 

Of course I understand that making such a serial would

generate much work, but it does not need to be as

complicated at it sounds.

 

On the other hand, every "advanced" tutorial is

appreciated in any form or flavour. I have been

playing around now for some years without producing

more than small bits of a game, without actually

coming to an end of anything.

 

Best wishes

Roland

[Guest Red Ocktober]

this would indeed be verrrrry useful to the Leadwerks developer community... please continue your work here... you can count on my support...

 

and, thx...

 

 

--Mike

[Flexman]

NaughtyAlien you certainly have my support and blessing.

 

The trick is in how you process and set-up those things, the language is of no consequence, the principles are the same, if you're cleaver enough to understand the those you should have enough technical know-how to work them into whatever language you like. And I'm sure someone else would anyway. That's a non-issue. If anything that would work better as the translation process requires closer understanding of the topic.

 

I could use it myself as I'm close to implementing a generic animation and event system which I want to use to push little infantry guys around from waypoint to waypoint. So this is a hot topic for me. I've been looking at OpenSteer for inspiration and ideas.

 

The original LE format of PDF and Videos were quite attractive. Blogs can work too, those are easier as you have a bit more control over updating.

 

Brilliant NA, go for it.

[diedir]

Hi NA and all people,

 

i need to very thank you and encourage you for your proposal,

 

i would like to have AI Racing car, each car purchasing each others with the goal to win race

collecting powerups and throwing smartly the projectiles on the right moment

 

but adapting AI to player skill, to not discourage a beginner.

 

some similar games i wanted to mimic (at least in ideas) are Blur, or Re-Volt (old one but good one)

 

really great community here, thanks all for be here !!

[AggrorJorn]

Good idea NA,

 

The community needs stuff like this. It is like others say: once you are past the basic stuff, there are very few examples how of how to continue. Topics like AI, pathFinding and setting up a game in general is stuff that is really hard needed around here.

 

My Lua tutorials will only go to a max of the basics and LuaGui, so basic gameplay mechanics are welcome.

 

Since so many people are pointing out that this is a good idea, I suggest that you present some sort of plan of all the kind of subjects you want to talk about. That way we can all chip in to see what a good and 'easy' to learn approach is. A couple of thoughts that seem more or less in then direction of a simple FPS/TPS game:

• 
   
  
• Main menu
  
• options menu
  
• loading screens and loading scenes
  
• basic gameplay (movement, interaction, camera)
  
• Weapons and shooting
  
• inventory
  
• Health bar and other HUDs
  
• AI
  
• level switching
  
• Ingame menu
  
• Saving options - Saving progress in game.
  

 

perhaps not everybody agrees but I think that documentation and tutorials are an essential (even vital) part of a program. I knew a post about a new global documentation discussion but I can't seem to find it.

What I mean to say is that the documentation should be reorganised and placed together in a global website part of werkspace.

[macklebee]

EDIT:

Just to clarify that use of Bmax will have no impact (I think) because , idea is to create those systems with almost NO engine API related commands, in order to be able to use that pretty much everywhere, so, of course, some engine commands will be used but really, those you will find in same form on pretty much any other engine (base for this claim came from few engines im very familiar with, Phyre, LE, Horde3D and Hadd3d)...whole Type data structure will be composed in very simple and basic clean form, so i really see no issue in proper translation or rewriting whole thing in to any language, long as idea and concept behind are understood (thats why people need tuts)..anyway, we will see

 

I couldn't agree more... the knowledge and methods are what we need. The translation to a person's language of choice is a non-issue when we have so many people here in the community willing to help converting stuff all the time.

[AndyGFX]

Very good idea

 

1) Language: BMX. Why? Because it's and will be primary language (by Josh's last words) *

2) Blog/Tutorial: Hmm it's hard. Blog looks like modern wave of this age, nothing more.

 

* When i started with 3D a lot of years ago, i was every day on NEHE, this page has a lot of basic tutorials and everyone is writed in same language, and at end of tutorial is added download section with links to other language conversions. I think this is way from my point of view.

All tutorials in ONE language with download links to others conversion.

 

Note: This idea give me new "fresh air" to my life, because i haven't time now to make any game project (i have new house and I'm surpised how many time need it from my free-time ), but i can help with this idea when you want.

[Canardia]

1) Language: Human. Why? Because it can precompile to C++ or BlitzMax (or any other language if people are interested to write configs for it). So only one source code needed.

2) Wiki. I don't want to download all kinds of PDF files, but have a quick look at them online first.

[AndyGFX]

1) Language: Human. Why? Because it can precompile to C++ or BlitzMax (or any other language if people are interested to write configs for it). So only once source code needed.

2) Wiki. I don't want to download all kinds of PDF files, but have a quick look at them online first.

 

 

I agree.

[Jared]

@Naughty Alien- I feel that watching a tutorial is more interactive, and I am also able to work with it to complete the assignment. By trying to finish a project as specified over a blog would be a little bit more overwhelming.

 

Also, off topic Naughty Alien I saw you posted a picture of a level of your's in LeadWerks. Do you build the levels yourself in LeadWerks or use another program like 3DStudio Max, and import them into LeadWerks?

 

Best,

 

Beastegargoyle

[Naughty Alien]

hi Jared..

Levels are builted entirely in 3dsmax as well as animation and then, 'tuned' up in small editor of mine where i set/prepare/add some things to existing geometry/characters

 

@Andy

i will be my pleasure to have work split/supported by you since i respect simplicity and elegance of code of yours i saw, especially when(if) i reach automatic GUI/HUD system lesson..

[AndyGFX]

@NA: OK. Today i prepare my GUI/HUD code as Demo and then i send you link to download via PM. Look on it and then we prepare final design doc of GUI/HUD and then we make decision what we/users need to finish or how to extend your or splited code, etc.

 

Note: Thank for positive opinion on my coding