Supporting game development

[Josh]

Leadwerks software is designed to make game development fun and easy, but that's not what I want to talk about in this thread. I am interested in hearing what kind of support we might be able to offer beyond just software.

 

What are your limiting steps? Do you need artwork produced? Do you need other people to work with? Would team management features help you?

 

What about funding? If you had more money, would you be able to put it to good use? There are some interesting developments in peer financing that are evolving right now.

 

Any other ideas? Don't worry about problems of implementing things right now, I just want to hear your ideas.

 

This isn't me complaining and prodding you guys to publish more games. I am interested in doing things in this area that no one ever has.

[Rick]

Maybe some game design templates (Word or whatever format) to give people an idea of what that looks like and having it ask questions that they might not have thought about.

[L B]

http://leadwerks.com/werkspace/index.php?/topic/2477-suggestions/

[VicToMeyeZR]

 

What about funding? If you had more money, would you be able to put it to good use? There are some interesting developments in peer financing that are evolving right now.

 

 

 

i would be interested in participating in this. I have been looking for something good to invest in for a while. I know there are some great people that can produce great products, with just the right financing.

[Josh]

Please stick to topics other than the software and documentation.

 

Regarding investment:

 

You'd want to spread your money out over a lot of projects, just in theory, but it could be profitable. And it would help small developers.

 

One way to do it is for the investor to buy wholesale copies of the game. Let's say the game's final price is $20. The investor might buy 50 copies at $10 each. When the game goes on sale, the money from the first 50 sales would then go to the investor, so they would put in $500 and get back $1000. The developer gets money up front to contract artwork, pay for advertising, or get other help.

 

An individual's reputation would be the best way to ensure they finish their projects. Your online reputation is yours for life. If someone didn't finish a project, they would probably never get another chance. Of course a developer with a track record of getting things done makes a better investment.

 

Of course I wouldn't put everything I had into one person, but that's true of any investment.

[VicToMeyeZR]

Also, maybe find ways to get some groups together. Its seems, that quite a few are working on separate products, and a join venture with combined efforts would help a tremendous amount to get 3-4 products on the market.

 

I don't know how you could accomplish that, because most indies, just want their game the way they want it..

 

Also, with your connections, I think a few with a boost from your name, might get the publisher they need(income also) to get a finished product.

[Rick]

The venture thing would be cool. If this website could provide a place for this to happen and possibly even track the obligations of who borrowed what and who owes what it would be a huge help in getting that started. That part could even be made public for non LE license holders to do. That could really set apart the LE community.

[VicToMeyeZR]

 

 

Also, with your connections, I think a few with a boost from your name, might get the publisher they need(income also) to get a finished product.

 

I was thinking, if there was a place, that developers and publishers could go to collaborate together. What I mean, by that, is a developer or team, can post their project. Must be a playable demo, and ONLY publishers(that the site admin filter out as only valid publishers) can view those projects (all under an NDA) and collaborate with the developer(s) and make offers to get the project into a finished product..

 

Might be a driving factor to get products done

[Canardia]

Back to the core of game development, from my experience:

 

Do you need artwork produced?

Oh yes, and a lot. Every game needs an incredible amount of assets, once you have all the graphics in place, you need all the sounds too, and people think they can do with 1 or 2 artist. Fat chance. You need at least 10, unless you make an indie game like Armadillo Run which is damn good and has basically no assets. There is no land between no asset and full asset games, it just doesn't make sense.

 

Do you need other people to work with? Would team management features help you?

Most team leaders are blind and selfish, and don't understand the indie business. They do exactly the opposite of what they should do. Indie developers should make unique, neverbefore seen games, and not another GTA4 or Doom clone.

I could need some people who do what they are supposed to do. Follow the goal, and work as a team. Sure, money can buy people, but it's hard to find quality people.

 

What about funding? If you had more money, would you be able to put it to good use? There are some interesting developments in peer financing that are evolving right now.

Forget about those scam fundings, they will give you whatever money you ask, and ask 10 times the return of investment back. It's complete scam, like the Illuminati said: the federal reserve will never expect anyone from paying their debts, since it's mathematically impossible, as the interest rates will overrule the real value of the money.

[Roland]

Well written Lumooja

[Josh]

This thread is not about software or documentation. Please stay on-topic.

[Naughty Alien]

..i would like to second what darrenc182 said, in sense, that, I have no issues to see updates going on, thats great, but it is very hard to follow when you update and realize that structure you wrote before, is broken in some places and require work around same things again and again..this is not a problem for hobbyists since usual its work over very small amount of data and media, however, when you working over real game with loads of elements plugged in there, its an horrid work to catch what is wrong and suppose to be just okay since its using same commands as before and it was working just fine...thats why im 'steady' on 2.31 because im really scared to change now, due massive amount of media i have incorporated, and i have no time to go again trough all libraries i wrote to change things...

 

I would like to see also more support for developers who are on commercial track, and maybe some sort of locked thread should be for such use..so support could be anything..from very specific shaders required, up to features needed, if any..on that way, fusion will be better as, such work will be sort of simbiosis between LE and developer and i believe its worth time for LE side because promotion and advertising trough finished games is way beyond any talk over on forums and what not..so, its worth in my book and it should be set i believe..

 

Money..well..i guess, primary target of LE is AAA world..having said that, anyone who has started game in such direction, most probably have money and corresponding media, or, 'discarding' will be done by publisher anyway. So how to use money if I have it?? Well..I do have plans for LE, and some sort of support of its development. Specific details i will leave to reside between me and LE author, but it will be clear to me, what to do, after i see v.3.0 out and what is it about. It is important for me since im making a living out of games, and Im interested to see LE in areas im looking for, since, after Hidden Dawn, PC is not anymore only area im looking for,and thats something what will define my future steps for sure, so thats why my decision is tied to v.3.0.

[Pancakes]

This thread is not about software or documentation. Please stay on-topic.

 

But the services that people require is strongly related to the state and definition of the software and documentation. In my mind I can't really seperate the two as someone representing the 'hobbyist' LE user, if you were interested in hobbyist data, that is.

 

So I'll just say that in the state of the current software and docs, that none of those services that you suggest would really mean anything. And I'm thinking that other hobbyist might agree.

 

But if you empower experience and knowledge-weak hobbyist with software and docs such services might eventually make some sense. Even if it wasn't me, I know there is some talented non-veteran out there who could show up and knock people's socks off and then they find themselves in need of these services you are asking about.

 

Maybe I miss the entire point. if so, You can delete this post I guess.

[Josh]

We're talking about things beyond just the software and docs.

[Davaris]

Creating a system that reliably introduces people with the right skills, interest, experience and money, would probably be a first.

 

By right people, I mean those with money to invest, those with completed design documents, proven programmers, writers, 3D artists, concept artists, etc.

 

I assume someone like that would be similar to an agent, or producer in the entertainment business, or they would be like a matchmaker on one of those internet dating sites.

 

If they were able to get results that got profitable games made and provided employment for the people that work on those games, they'd be worth their weight in gold.

[Chris Paulson]

For me I find one limiting factors is the amount of artwork available especially decent animated characters/models available with a workable amount of animations.

I search the internet for decent stuff but I only ever find models that have about 10 animations which is about 90 short of what you really need.

[filax]

Hi

 

I think a little help on setting up shaders would be helpful. And a set of materials a little

bit representative of what make the engine. About this , i found the package a bit lightweight.

 

With Icare, we move a little blind in the engine

[flachdrache]

Coming from the modding-community i know exactly what its like to "stand-alone" - all i can say, right now, is that we have something in the making to support independent game development or self-learning hobbyists.

 

http://www.manablue.org/
http://www.managreen.org/

 

You might notice that these are ******* twins and incorporating an .org domain ... and that my origin is located in the realms of "game" artwork.

 

However, iam currently moving and my "real-life" work comes first, "free" support comes second but i have art-assets to be released on the market, with a reasonable pricing model. With that being said, ill take care that releasing supportive work (which comes with source) aint getting in the way of ones business interests - which means [somewhat] restrictive licensing for the "free" content.

[AggrorJorn]

Support that is not related to software or documentation is pretty tough. There are many members on werkspace who are serious about a future in game development. What Leadwerks could support in is how to start you own company. What are the things you have to think of: marketing, future planning, setting up costs, publishers etc, team building. How to lay contacts with publishers or how to get your game to distribution platforms like Steam. How do you plan and organize the making of a game.

[TylerH]

I think it would be great if Leadwerks, as a company, could approach things how Epic Games has, trying to get things like Steamworks, Windows LIVE, etc. available for indie developers through middleware integration.

[L B]

I will maintain the team space suggestions and middleware.

[Josh]

It appears that the way Epic and Valve have set it up, Unreal Engine licensees (for real engine, not UDK) automatically get the Steamworks SDK. Valve made a big deal out of making the SDK free a while back, but then you have to send a demo of your game to get approved for it...so I am not sure how it is any different or why they even need to make a name for the SDK and make press releases about it.

[TylerH]

There are open source APIs that work called OpenSteamworks, as well as OSW (same name, different project)

[Paul Thomas]

My team has become fairly large by this time. The most limiting part of the team building was indeed money to spend for development. At times I'd find people with an incredible portfolio but I simply couldn't afford the prices they've quoted. There are those talented individuals that require a large salary that will work with your own financial limitations, but more often they simply couldn't because they're searching for full time (full salary) jobs. Which is of course an understandable situation.

 

Other than the financial issues it's incredibly hard to find animators, which also could have been solved with proper finances. This whole time I've only been able to find two that have a decent portfolio and have the experience. You can find assets that are already animated, but as someone else has pointed out, they won't have all the required animations. Also depending on your project you could require custom animations, so you're basically still stuck at square one when you went on the search for assets that are animated.

 

Each project will have it's own limitations so it would be fairly hard to pin-point. I think majority of them could be solved with proper financing. Financing is still a battle I have yet to complete, so I couldn't give any input on that portion yet. I just know it's a difficult battle.

[Josh]

This is interesting, because there are people with excess funds (investors) and people who could use money to make returns, and even people who would donate just to get a cool project done, with nothing expected in return. I would like to connect those people in a way where the benefit of that relationship is measurable and documented publicly.