Guest Red Ocktober Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 ok... now this isn't that far from Leadwerks 2.4x water... we already had the foam... and i know that you can add the vertex driven waves (just near the view would be fine)...and all the work you'll be doing on this would be applicable to LW3...sooooo...--Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Wow, that looks horrible. What the hell, the water just bulges up for a few seconds, then flattens down? Take away the beautiful island, and people would be laughing at that. I paid to have a special fluid simulation performed and I have the wave data. I guarantee the motion will look better than that. Quote My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Red Ocktober Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Wow, that looks horrible. What the hell, the water just bulges up for a few seconds, then flattens down? Take away the beautiful island, and people would be laughing at that. I paid to have a special fluid simulation performed and I have the wave data. I guarantee the motion will look better than that. i dunno bud... you gotta take another look at that... then look at what we have now... i'd pay for a 2.5 update if it had that water, or anything close... as horrible as it looks that's all i'd for my sim... the fluid simulation in the video is nice... seeing as you have the wave data, is there a chance it might be used to get some dynamic waves in the existing brew... --Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 i dunno bud... you gotta take another look at that... then look at what we have now... i'd pay for a 2.5 update if it had that water, or anything close... as horrible as it looks that's all i'd for my sim... the fluid simulation in the video is nice... seeing as you have the wave data, is there a chance it might be used to get some dynamic waves in the existing brew... --Mike I wouldn't argue that LE2 water is better than your video you posted. LE3 water is/will be, but it takes time. Quote My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dozz Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Agree with Josh, I'd rather spend time animating every vertex for a wave than use that, it's poor. But I also dont like your video Josh, it's even worse! especially as you paid for it, it's too short to get a real idea of what's capable tho, and it may be that you just showed a crappy clip, but what I see doesn't look realistic, waves going all directions and it looks like the height values are varying just cos it would look worse if they were all the same height. If its a fluid simulation, what forces are causing those waves? it aint wind, it aint tidal, its just deciding to bob up and down because it wants to, poor show. Please find that guy you was gonna kidnap to do proper water, lots of peeps waiting For one of my jobs, I'm in a helicopter flying over water and I look out of the window at the sea, and neither of those videos is even close. Flexman, if you read this, your heli looks very cool project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canardia Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Maybe OpenCL based water would work. Pure shader based water is quite useless since it doesn't interact with the world. Water needs interactive waves and physics. Quote ■ Ryzen 9 ■ RX 6800M ■ 16GB ■ XF8 ■ Windows 11 ■ ■ Ultra ■ LE 2.5 ■ 3DWS 5.6 ■ Reaper ■ C/C++ ■ C# ■ Fortran 2008 ■ Story ■ ■ Homepage: https://canardia.com ■ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 The waves in my video are traveling. it's basically an FFP simulation, like what Crysis uses, but this one is calculated to be looping and seamless, so the data can be pre-calculated and reused. If you look carefully in CryEngine you will be able to tell the waves are moving in two opposing directions along one axis. If you look in the far end of the pool, that indistinct ocean movement is what I was hoping to get. I think it will look good when a shader is applied to the wave data. Quote My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 i dunno bud... you gotta take another look at that... then look at what we have now... i'd pay for a 2.5 update if it had that water, or anything close... as horrible as it looks that's all i'd for my sim... the fluid simulation in the video is nice... seeing as you have the wave data, is there a chance it might be used to get some dynamic waves in the existing brew... --Mike It's not a simple matter to add this stuff in at this point. Quote My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canardia Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 If you look in the far end of the pool, that indistinct ocean movement is what I was hoping to get. I think it will look good when a shader is applied to the wave data. Isn't that just an optical illusion? Objects floating in water seem to move to the opposite direction, but they are just almost still, so the faster moving wave direction gives you that illusion. Quote ■ Ryzen 9 ■ RX 6800M ■ 16GB ■ XF8 ■ Windows 11 ■ ■ Ultra ■ LE 2.5 ■ 3DWS 5.6 ■ Reaper ■ C/C++ ■ C# ■ Fortran 2008 ■ Story ■ ■ Homepage: https://canardia.com ■ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexman Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Just to add my 0.00000002$ (inflation even makes opinions worthless these days) that UDK modded water is just a prop in a scene and built as such. It is exactly what it needs to be. What sells that ocean is the island and the sound. It's perfectly fine for that and I wouldn't laugh at it. You can over egg a pudding. Red Ocktober is making a sub game so his needs are probably more than such a simple implementation would deliver. I suspect he would be better off with some kind of fluid simulation if it were available. Curiously I don't see many projects needing fluid simulation, if anything, the UDK implementation would be more than suitable to sell a scene for most FPS projects unless the goal is to bog down gamers computers with so much mathematically assisted visual **** they don't need. It really depends what to goal is here. Is it a technical exercise? Is it making games? Or just getting the job done? Maybe water sports games where you drag an invisible sphere through the water surface and it creates a suitable wake, I've seen it done using normals in the World of Warcraft Cataclysm expansion to great effect. I don't have any answers. I currently have no use for water beyond a small lake or river which doesn't need any of this but might for a future Search and Rescue simulation game. It would be nice to have a decent off the shelf (store) module for a ocean effect that Red Ocktober could use as he's been wanting one for so long. If the store had a ground fog height shader I'd buy it. @Dozz Cheers man, awesome Quote 6600 2.4G / GTX 460 280.26 / 4GB Windows 7 Author: GROME Terrain Modeling for Unity, UDK, Ogre3D from PackT Tricubic Studios Ltd. ~ Combat Helo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Red Ocktober Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 exactly... i don't need all the interactive fluid dynamics... just a believable visual... like in the first video... right now i'm going with this (Leadwerks 2.26 modded water still gotta make it stretch to horizon and fix stray vertices) i'd really prefer a visual that looks closer to the UDK stuff... but alas i'm not a shader coder, and the above shows the best i can do with LW water... i think that right now 2.41 water can be tweaked to look good, if all you're scene is looking for is a pond or small river... ocean water needs to have swells (waves) and a lil foam... like in the first video... just my monthly thing... while i'm waiting for 3.0 --Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dozz Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 As far as I can tell, water is generally moving on mass due to tidal influences. In deep water moving slower, speeding up at shallow depths because the same volume is getting squeezed, then at the shoreline the top surface is going fast enough to overtake the underlying water (add to water which is returning from the beach) producing the crashing waves. Then adding wind into the mix amplifies all this. I know it's a lot more complicated than that, but I definately see (especiallywhen the wind is in a opposite direction) that the wind causes much smaller ripples that ride on the larger waves and cause the tops to break off the peaks causing the foam. The foam floats as if it stays in the same spot, expands out then fades. Most of the computer examples look like the waves are bobbing up and down in chunks (replace the word chunks with a better description), and it looks horrible to me. I think a more linear, stretched out waveform with some variation would look better. I'm just getting back into programming, so I wouldn't know how to try this for myself, but I'm guessing it would look ok. Then overlay a second smaller wave to account for the wind, which would act in an independent direction. It might look terrible when tried out and would need more thought for high speed winds. Just my observations anyways. Waves do move in opposing directions for a short period when an obstacle is hit. Maybe a texture local to the object (or parented to a moving vessel such as a submarine) could be multiplied with (or overide) the main water textures to achieve a good look. On a final note, sometimes when I've looked at real water doing it's thing, it doesn't look real. Maybe we are in the matrix? Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Betke Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I really like the water update the Lumion guys do with their DX9 arch-viz engine: http://vimeo.com/22124363 WIll be released in May hopefully so I can get my hand on it. This in LE would be nice too for game-devs I think. People always make a mystery out of water in games hehe. Quote Pure3d Visualizations Germany - digital essences AAA 3D Model Shop specialized on nature and environments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixel Perfect Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 That looks very impressive Michael! In games I never feel it needs to be totally realistic, just real enough to not have the player question it. I guess the same is true with Architectural presentations. Quote Intel Core i5 2.66 GHz, Asus P7P55D, 8Gb DDR3 RAM, GTX460 1Gb DDR5, Windows 7 (x64), LE Editor, GMax, 3DWS, UU3D Pro, Texture Maker Pro, Shader Map Pro. Development language: C/C++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldfire Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 I have had experience with dynamic water in an experimental project before. The effect was quite nice, but it was basically only for colliding ripples based on a smoothing algorithm. I got a little time available today, so I will see if I can port it over to LE without much difficulty. Edit: I do fear the performance on larger meshes, but we will see. Quote AMD 64 X2 3800+ | 3G DDR2 667 | Windows 7 Ultimate 64 Bit | Nvidia Geforce 9800 GT 512MB DDR3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dozz Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Very very good ocean videos from ozernik on youtube. I like this early morning calm ocean. His oceans are great, but the draft on his ship models look silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 That's simply amazing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dozz Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Red Ocktober, worth a test with the demo from the website, http://www.ocean3dinteractive.com/ I would try it myself if I was more experienced with cpp (8 days) If someone does try it in Leadwerks, i'd be very interested to know the results, and price If it was an option for LE3, i would pay extra (dependant on the price) Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Red Ocktober Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 @ Dozz... thx for the heads up D... i'm gonna shoot em an email, see what comes up... that video definitely looks stunning... @coldfire... verrrry interested to see what you come up with... --Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldfire Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I haven't had much luck so far, but figured I'd show the technique I was using before: http://freespace.virgin.net/hugo.elias/graphics/x_water.htm It's kinda hacky for a dynamic water system but could also be used for some pretty cool effects. @Dozz: That's probably the coolest realtime water I have ever seen! Quote AMD 64 X2 3800+ | 3G DDR2 667 | Windows 7 Ultimate 64 Bit | Nvidia Geforce 9800 GT 512MB DDR3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tournamentdan Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Agree with Josh, I'd rather spend time animating every vertex for a wave than use that, it's poor. But I also dont like your video Josh, it's even worse! especially as you paid for it, it's too short to get a real idea of what's capable tho, and it may be that you just showed a crappy clip, but what I see doesn't look realistic, waves going all directions and it looks like the height values are varying just cos it would look worse if they were all the same height. If its a fluid simulation, what forces are causing those waves? it aint wind, it aint tidal, its just deciding to bob up and down because it wants to, poor show. Please find that guy you was gonna kidnap to do proper water, lots of peeps waiting For one of my jobs, I'm in a helicopter flying over water and I look out of the window at the sea, and neither of those videos is even close. Flexman, if you read this, your heli looks very cool project. Actually I think this simulation is dead on. If you notice in the short vid it is not a ocean or a lake or a pond, but a square box holding the water. Last time I was in a swimming pool and someone did a cannon ball the waves were bouncing off the walls in every direction much like the video. As if those two balls were dropped in the water creating the chop in the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dozz Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I just looked at it again and again, it's wrong on my eyes, for a simulation, it doesn't interact with the object in the liquid either. The box is so far away, that I'm guessing it doesn't interact with that either? It may be the settings, but if the simulation as shown was baked, I would never have a use for it. Have you ever seen Nvidia's water in a box demo? or others, done way, WAY batter than this. Everyone's different I guess. heh, better even Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Red Ocktober Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 the last time i saw water acting like that (in Josh's video) was in a pan over a medium fire... or a pan of water outside in a brisk rain with big drops falling into it... as for a pool... i'd say nahhh... the action in the video is too fast and the waves too close together... plus, even in a pool, there are swells... well, sorta... the simulation would be dead on if it were a simmering pan of water simulation... the ocean doesn't act like that... neither does the water in a pool... --Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Betke Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 That looks very impressive Michael! In games I never feel it needs to be totally realistic, just real enough to not have the player question it. I guess the same is true with Architectural presentations. Yes arch-viz demands for realstic output or very artistic. There is nothing in between it in most cases. At the moment all those real-time viz products have the problem beeing judged and compared with VRay and other offline-render. THis is funny to read sometime. Quote Pure3d Visualizations Germany - digital essences AAA 3D Model Shop specialized on nature and environments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 It's hard to judge the motion when we're looking at gray milk. I'll add a water shader to it and see what the result is. From an analytic standpoint it meets our needs because it has waves traveling in two opposite direction, and it's seamless and looping. Those were not simple qualities to obtain. If it needs improvement, I'll see what can be adjusted. If the technique doesn't work, I'll try something else. Quote My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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