Hi! Some beginner's questions.

[caustic]

Hi Leadwerks community!

 

I'm the new guy here - nothing special: looking for an engine to power my idea which could later become a nice game perhaps.

Dreaming of quitting my job and do stuff I like and maybe it will be the game. Maybe you heard that too often from someone

First I thought with the majority of forum entries and announcements being so old I would disregard the engine but then I read about the data loss and I thought that this must be a very nice community when something this bad happens - it still stands together.

 

As I can't find any fitting FAQ and -sorry- (I feel dumb to admit this) I can't find a search function in this forum I have some questions.

 

1. Is there any action in the forum for the python part of this engine?
   
2. Is it feasible to use python within Leadwerks? Any recommendations on how to set it up?
   
3. Is there a good "How to get started?" guide which will guide me through setting everything up and running?
   
4. Is there an extended starting guide on object import, texturing, landscape and game mechanics (an all-in-one starting guide if you wish)?
   

 

Thank you for your time.

[Mumbles]

The leadwerks developer wiki (link) has some tutorial that cover both points 3 and 4

 

But as for 1 and 2. I've never heard of anything related to python in Leadwerks. The closest match you will find to python is lua.

 

And my personal opinion is that the engine is best used with either C/C++ or BlitzMax. Other people will prefer other languages, but support for other languages is limited. The tutorial I linked to show you how to use the engine in both of those languages. I wouldn't really think python was suitable for making games with, but maybe I just love C too much...

[Canardia]

You can search for python using this search tool: http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/index.php?app=core&module=search

The Leadwerks Forum skin doesn't have a search function yet.

1. Haven't seen many people use Python, but it should work just like any other language with LE

2. Feasible is what you like. There's no general rule how to make business, and sometimes the most wierd solutions make the best money

3. There was a nice handbook PDF in the Documentation section, and I think all the tutorials and documentations and other stuff will be restored when the new server is ready. The Wiki has tutorials.

4. Same as 3.

[cassius]

I I would say forget python.use c+= or Blitzmax along with lua script.

Any other route would depend on third party header files and a lot more hassle.

[caustic]

Wow! Thanks for the fast and friendly replies!

 

It's just that I'm coming from the python sector and I would suggest that LUA is not this far away but it's definitely something new.

I see that the example code is relatively common-looking but still I would have my thoughts if I can use all the modules I am familiar with.

 

I do have some time before starting the project maybe I should write a small wrapper in a server-client style,

doing all the dirty work in python, passing everything on to another process which would then contain the wrapper and Leadwerks.

But maybe the memcpy operation would slow performance down too much...

 

I was thinking about having some shared mem where "the world" would be stored, python would fill it and Leadwerks would "just" have to display it.

Of course these objects would be organized in some kind of in-mem database... ok ok Im hyperventilating.

Also I guess Leadwerks also already has this kind of management and I would be a fool not using this implemented superfast tools.

 

So - now you can see where Iam starting at (totally noob),

originally I came from using Pygame (a thin SDL / OpenGL wrapper) using 2D and sprites and stuff like that.

 

I will read the wiki now - right now I can't imagine using C++ or anything in which I maybe need to use low level functions.

(If I understand correctly I would have to deal with many low level details which is already handled and convenienced by python if I would just use it.)

 

Thanks!!

[Canardia]

You don't really need to use any low level functions in C++ when you use STL. It's just as high level as a modern Object BASIC then.

 

I've made a demo which uses a sqlite3 database to store all the level data, so there's no need to have them all in memory. Only have in memory what the camera (can be multiple also) sees (including sniper scope zoom), and there's no delay or stuttering either, since the sqlite3 queries are done on another thread.

 

Once all models are loaded, the LoadModel() command takes no time either, so you could have like a startup zone where all models are hidden somewhere underground to preload all models.

[caustic]

Hi Lumooja,

 

thanks for answering.

Being able to search is great!

I've read some similar noob-question-threads now and I see that you guys are totally sold on LUA.

 

Before I maybe give in and start using LUA (which, as I saw on the LUA vs Python discussion page would result in having my favorite functionylity stripped off me. )

Could someone point me in the direction of what I would need to do to use one of the 350 languages which should just be able to import dll's?

Also what would be the disadvantages (in short) of using werkspace from an external language?

 

Thanks again for the professionalism!

[Canardia]

For all 350 languages you need to write headers.

There are already headers for Python, Java, C#, C, C++, Pascal, Delphi, PureBASIC.

Only the C, C++ and BlitzMax headers come with the SDK. Lua is integrated in all languages.

 

There is no disadvantage of using the engine with an external language, it is even recommended to do so, except if the language in question itself is horribly slow. Lua is just a nice realtime scripting language which is best used in companion with an external language, but you can't do advanced games with it alone.

[Josh]

Could someone point me in the direction of what I would need to do to use one of the 350 languages which should just be able to import dll's?

Also what would be the disadvantages (in short) of using werkspace from an external language?

 

Thanks again for the professionalism!

Honestly, if you have to ask, you probably won't be able to write your own header file for a new language. You're much better off going with an officially supported language like Lua or C++.

[caustic]

Thank you Josh.

 

It's funny being on the 'other side', in my job I'm usually the one telling others to leave it if they don't understand the simplest things

Maybe it would really be better for me to go back to C++ .

Also I could use boost or something to use C++ from python but then I guess there could be problems with tracebacks and some objects.

 

You know this is not easy.

When having the choice of using a good, up-to-date graphics engine and using my favorite programming language and have no official support.

Or having to learn a new (or old) programming language but with official support.

Or trying to find another 3D engine which integrates more natively with python... (yeah I know what you might think: "good luck with that" - and you are right.)

 

Is there some rough estimate on how long I will need to understand:

1. the engine (let's say 50% of how it works)
   
2. C++ (when just using it to power the engine)
   
3. LUA (when just using it to use the engine)
   

 

Thanks again!

[Canardia]

1. 1 hour

2. 5 minutes

3. 2 minutes

I can write a tutorial today which shows that these times are correct.

[caustic]

That's something!

Do it.

 

As I don't want to be a cheap ******* - if you have paypal or something I can offer to (partly) reimburse you with 10 € if it's a nicely made tutorial.

(Also you can still hold all rights for this.)

[Mumbles]

I've never heard of anyone demanding money for tutorials - it's just not something most communities do...

[Canardia]

It will be free, and I will put it on the Werkspace Documentation section.

It's kinda like a tutorial for normally skilled programmers, who only want to know how to get started and use Leadwerks Engine easily.

[caustic]

Hi Mumbles,

Lumooja didn't demand the money - I just didn't want to be "yet another noob" asking noobish questions and then he will be gone forever.

I saw some of your threads in the old forum like this and I just doesn't want to be like that.

 

If Lumooja is setting up a tutorial to help me evaluate (and reducing) the costs for in-depth-learning leadwerks I find it nice to at least try to balance this out a little bit so I could at least offer to pay a little bit for good work.

After all it's something I can use and I asked for so I see no problem to offer to give something in return.

 

I just wanted to show a little bit respect towards your work and community - that's also the reason I won't go into the flamewar-direction when it comes to LUA vs Python or something like that.

But of course it reflects well on Lumooja and the community by not taking it.

Because you guys (or Lumooja in this case) is making a difference. You could very well say to me that I should go play somewhere else, but you guys seems to be focused, confident and positive about your work and your attitude.

That's one of the reasons - and a big reason for me not to just go ahead and take the next engine.

[Mumbles]

At the time of the old forum, there were a few problems with piracy. Kids who'd just downloaded to latest freebie to make its way to the torrent sites, without having the faintest clue of engine's capabilities or requirements (in terms of both hardware, effort). When you ask more sensible questions like yours, most members are more than prepared to help if they are able to, without you needing to get your wallet out,

 

Since moving to this new forum about 1 and a half years ago the piracy pretty much died outright

 

After all it's something I can use and I asked for so I see no problem to offer to give something in return.

 

Well yes, donations are a great way of showing gratitude, but personally I wouldn't offer them upfront (maybe that's just me). To be offered a donation afterwards without any indication in advance really makes you feel like you've gone the extra mile to help someone.

 

But to have been offered it upfront: let's just assume it's me your offering to pay for a tutorial. I go away and write one that actually doesn't really help you at all. Now what do you do? Do you pay me anyway to avoid upsetting me over the hard work I've put in and think to yourself "I'm not asking her again", or do you honestly admit that it didn't help, and thus not pay?

 

So I'm not saying don't reward people who have helped you, but just be aware of some possible implications of it. And since we're like a big family here, help is normally offered for free, but no one's actually going to say "you must not pay me"... It's like paying your sister to iron your suit for you - you can, but she's probably willing to do it for free.

[Canardia]

What is money after all? It's only a way to measure human service. So if you have earned a lot of money, it means you have done a lot of good services to people. If you have no money, it means you're selfish and never help people. It's as simple as that.

[Mumbles]

So if you have earned a lot of money, it means you have done a lot of good services to people.

 

...Or robbed a bank

[Josh]

So if you have earned a lot of money, it means you have done a lot of good services to people.

I just won't go there. I'm the staff, I can't point out the obvious joke here...

[Mumbles]

Ugh, that's just disgusting...

[Canardia]

I started to write the QuickStart Tutorial as a doc file using LibreOffice 3.3. I think I will need to upload it into the Asset Store/Code section, since the Documentation section is still broken.

[Canardia]

Ok, my QuickStart Tutorial is ready

It should help completely new people to Leadwerks Engine understand very quickly how Leadwerk Engine works and how it is used.

Download it from here:

http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/files/file/209-leadwerks-engine-quickstart-tutorial/

[Josh]

He won't be able to view it there. Please post it in the forum, not the code downloads section. I'll have the documentation database back up ASAP.

[Canardia]

But he can just quickly buy Leadwerks Engine to read it, or?

[Josh]

It doesn't bother me, but if you want it private you can post it in the advanced discussion forum. The file was "unapproved", not deleted, so if you need to download it again it's still available. Not sure if it will show up for you or not, but it's on the server.