Destructible objects?

[Pixel Perfect]

haha ... fair comment Rick

[tournamentdan]

If Josh does the coding framework for it and all I have to do is set some values on the csg model, then it could be done in about 5 seconds by all us users. The settings would basically be tolerances of forces. When x forces is applied to a given point on the CSG model look at the tolerance of CSG model (what kind of material is it, how deep can the blast go, etc) then based on those values the code to break the CSG model runs. In the game if you shoot the CSG model you apply a force at the point of contact the relates to the type of blast you want. Smaller force for a bullet and a big force for dynamite for example.

 

 

 

I think outside apps make things more realistic, but not easier than having it all integrated into the engine directly via code. Converting all these models to gmf and textures to DDS and making these mat files is a big pain and time consuming enough.

 

 

 

 

Not when I'm at work killing time before my football game

 

 

So this can only be done with csg models right?

[Pixel Perfect]

No, its just easier in some ways with CSG and Josh has expertise in that area. But I fail to see, as Paul pointed out earlier, how a comprehensive solution can be provided by just having it available for CSG modeled content.

[Josh]

If you want to shoot identical chunks of plaster off of indestructable wooden frames, then Apex is the way to go. I'm not very impressed with the results and the amount of work it takes to set up. A single object is one thing, but to make structures collapse you have to go through and tag debris chunks to make the whole structure spontaneously fall apart.

[Josh]

I drew some sketches on paper, and I think the proper way to go about complex structures is to have assign a list of entities that break when a particular entity breaks. This would actually let you set up complex structures that collapse, instead of just shooting paint off of walls.

[BES]

I drew some sketches on paper, and I think the proper way to go about complex structures is to have assign a list of entities that break when a particular entity breaks. This would actually let you set up complex structures that collapse, instead of just shooting paint off of walls.

 

Is that something your gonna add? ...already added? ..or is it up to us? ...or both?

[Rick]

This would actually let you set up complex structures that collapse, instead of just shooting paint off of walls.

 

I think just shooting paint off a wall, concreted off of pillars, and tiles off of floor is pretty cool in itself and could be done all via code, pending the breakout and texturing in real-time is fast enough.

[Paul Thomas]

lol

 

You can make entire structures collapse with Apex. You sell the whole thing short by judging only what you see in a few videos. You can fracture the whole wall, the whole pillar, the whole floor, and so on. What people decided to do with Apex and show on their videos is only a fraction of what can be accomplished.

[BES]

lol

 

You can make entire structures collapse with Apex. You sell the whole thing short by judging only what you see in a few videos. You can fracture the whole wall, the whole pillar, the whole floor, and so on. What people decided to do with Apex and show on their videos is only a fraction of what can be accomplished.

 

Yeah.... but hardware limitations would worry me.... since physX is Nvidia's baby they go through a lot of trouble to make it run really good ONLY with their graphics cards... unless its coded properly ..since its been proven that it can run on AMD graphics cards too...

 

Right now though if I wanna run physX stuff on my current AMD system I would have to add an Nvidia card and use "modded" drivers to get physX to run properly or else my system will lag very badly...since Nvidia added something else that prevents it from running if an AMD graphics card is detected on your system..

 

I only use AMD hardware ...its a hassle to have to do all that ...

 

I hear OpenCL could be used for physics processing...

[Wchris]

I think it would be incredibly performance hogging (slicing multiple CSG at a single time after multiple impacts and applying material to the sides of each chunk), for hardly any benefit or with even reasonable looking results, on CSG only environment assets. All of that together sounds like a waste of time. But, Josh will do what he wants.

 

i'm not sure about this .. i have played "severance" a long time ago (a good game by the way) where you could slice opponents with a sword without a slowdown at all. so it is feasible. (but requires math skills of course )

[macklebee]

i'm not sure about this .. i have played "severance" a long time ago (a good game by the way) where you could slice opponents with a sword without a slowdown at all. so it is feasible. (but requires math skills of course )

 

I think you are mistaking modular components that fall off a character based on a hit point as true slicing of a mesh. Also, Paul was discussing the merits of doing this with CSG models only.

[Wchris]

I'm much more interested in real dynamic breakage, but no one has done it yet. I think our CSG solids can be used for this because they can be split and carved in real-time. We'll see how it goes.

 

I drew some sketches on paper, and I think the proper way to go about complex structures is to have assign a list of entities that break when a particular entity breaks. This would actually let you set up complex structures that collapse, instead of just shooting paint off of walls.

hi Josh

i have merged two of your posts.

 

what about extending the gmf format in LE3 to add CSG solids that define parts that would break appart when collided ? This would be cool because it would remove the work of creating the separate objects for the destructed model. Is this something you're thinking about for LE3 ? The problem is see here is LODS ... you'll have to do this with lods too or remove lod functionnality for breakable objects ?

[Wchris]

I think you are mistaking modular components that fall off a character based on a hit point as true slicing of a mesh. Also, Paul was discussing the merits of doing this with CSG models only.

If you find severance try to play it the full name was "severance blade of darkness"

you really get the feeling it's random slices. but in facts you are right it is not.

 

here is a screenshot but you'll find more with google

 

one more

 

a 2001 game from codemasters ! never seen something like that since severance. those guys were really "code masters" !

 

EDIT: from a mod site i found it was not realtime slicing http://www.moddb.com/games/severance-blade-of-darkness/tutorials/severance-blade-3d-by-r3d it was pre-computed parts.

The feeling was really there ... but setting up all small breakable parts is too much work for an indie. CSG is our only hope with a fill texture for the new faces created.

[LandsHeer]

APEX would be awesome actually, just watched that vid:

 

Performance shouldn't be that bad either, since the broken up wall models will disappear, but you still can break up walls. This would nice work with buildings too, by preparing some wall models with window holes and such in it and build them together in the editor, so its like Lego with destruction heh. You could build up some nice villages with it, but in fact are only using 5-8 models

 

Would be awesome to have something like that in LE anyway heh

[Juggernaut]

Is destructible environment really available in LE 2 ?

[Road Kill Kenny]

no

[Naughty Alien]

@BES

I believe Paul put it properly, regarding your initial question

 

'APEX' fracture-shatter like with LE.2.X

Perfectly doable. If am about to do it, then Voronoi cell point distribution is way to go. Played with it some time back. It works.

 

It is possible also to integrate 3D Grid, representing space of destructable objects, particularly those affecting others to collapse. Each voronoi cell should have minimum size of the 'building blocks' necessary to sustain structure stable (no collapsing). On that way physics itself shouldnt take place until critical structural integrity is compromised by simply checking 3D grid of certain objects. It worked very nice at initial version of Hidden Dawn, again, in short, perfectly doable.