Community Project?

[DigitalHax]

Would you like to see a leadwerks community project?

[Pancakes]

I don't think I would. Every one here loves game design I suppose, but to each of us game design means something altogether different. As I said before I managed one of these in the past and the way in which decisions were made struck me as a bit unsettling. For the sake of the project, everyone had to compromise a great deal on what it was that they loved about game design in the first place for an extended period of time.

 

I learned a lot from the project. But I can't say I even cared about or liked the game itself. I'm not sure if anyone did. We each had are favorite parts about the game. We liked the enviornments, the enemy design, the waterfall effect. But I'm not sure if any of us were making a game that we actually wanted to play.

 

My sole reason for starting that project was for learning experience and I said so upfront. We were all noobs on that team so it made perfect sense. But in Leadwerks Community, I'm not so sure. Personally, I wouldn't mind partnering up with a couple of people here at some point, but I wouldn't bother to build a partnership with others when there are so many areas where I need to improve before I could honestly consider myself as an asset to anyone.

 

So I would have to say no. But if Josh joins it I will have to yes! He could be our Tim Tebow!

[DigitalHax]

Well it doesn't neccisarily have to be everyone. It could just be with someone in each general field. With about 5 or so people it could work fairly well. I guess development teams have to start somewhere eh.

[shadmar]

Could be interesting, if it could be done as an editor game using lua objects, and a game script.

Would be very sharable and reusable then, but maybe not as flexible as an c++ project, just a thought.

[DaDonik]

Has been attempted in the past and failed horribly. Many people with many different ideas and many different backgrounds can't work together over a forum without real meetings and very good project management. Thats why i voted with no.

[Rick]

very good project management

 

This really would be the key to it all. I believe to make a successful community game like this the game has to be relatively small, planned out in great detail, and people asked to do very specific, "pieceable", components that someone could do in isolation from the project as a whole and have the project manager able to piece them together. I believe people are more willing to not officially be on a team and instead help out with small chunks of code. For example if you wanted movement based on animation to avoid movement sliding you could ask Roland or Pixel to create a small, isolated class to do so since they are the experts (don't be humble guys you know you are ) of the community in that area. They would be more likely to do that than join a team.

 

So if one could break up the entire game design into small tasks like that and just give requests for the community stating that this is a community game and you won't sell it when complete, or profits went to Leadwerks development, and anyone who helped will be given the correct recognition, then this might work. That being said I don't think all that many people have the skill to do that. You need some amazing foresight, really good design skills, experience completing a game already would be huge benefit, and be very very detail oriented. Building as you go I don't think would work in such a situation as people would probably get frustrated with things as they change all the time. Building as you go by yourself or someone you're paying is fine, but when working for someone else it's just annoying to be doing code that gets thrown away all the time because the design changes as you go.

 

This has been something I've wanted to try for a long time now, but even for the smallest of games it would take someone probably a couple of months to map all this stuff out to enough detail. The last thing you want to do is give tasks like "We need a sound system", "We need a pathfinding system", "We need an animation system", etc. These are far to generic.

 

That's just my thoughts on the topic anyway.

[Clackdor]

Rick said what I was thinking.

 

I've seen community mod projects that have been fantastic (for the curious check out Stainless Steel mod for Medial 2 Total War). But never a community game.

 

I still voted yes, but I think I could learn a lot from participating in such a project.

[Roland]

Although we have seen some of them come and go without any success I voted Yes and Yes. Its a good effort.

As Rick and Clackdor says the success of failure of such an effort depends on the leadership. Yes! A strong

leadership is needed to get somewhere. I would almost say a dictatorship, but that would perhaps be a bit strong word.

Anyway. It was Yes, Yes from here.

[Rick]

Side note, the poll should be radio buttons instead of checkboxes don't ya think?

[cassius]

Previous attempts have come to nothing but a mini game with sorce code available to community would be fine, so I vote yes but with low expectation.

EDIT: possibly the easiest way to proceed is for a single person to program the first draft and then offer it to others to add there own ideas.

[ChrisV]

Could be interesting, if it could be done as an editor game using lua objects, and a game script.

Would be very sharable and reusable then

+ 1

 

I think every project needs good management and dedicated people willing to finish it. Getting a game finished is the hardest part. That and also deciding what game it'll be if you work in a team. I've done a few games from start to finish (mostly 2D), but not big projects. Keeping motivated and inspired is what'll get you furthest.

Also, good leadership is essential, but not to the point of becoming bossy. We're making this game for our pleasure and to learn, not to become enemies.

Best would be a small game, maybe a simple fps shooter. It would be good to have something to promote the Leadwerks engine. Show what it can do.

And, if the game turns out to be decent, we could take it one step further and make it better and better.

So, yes I'm willing to participate. I'm not the best programmer, but I'm quite good at media (3D models, 2D art, sounds, music...).

 

Cheers

[Pancakes]

As I said before, the leader of this thing will have to be 4x more committed than anyone else. And ALWAYS ready to respond to everyone's messages ASAP. Otherwise things will quickly tumble into chaos. And basically, the leader is just an empty vessel for one of these things as well. Who will be the sacrficial lamb?

 

I led a 30 man team for one of these projects for about 3 months in the past. I was "that" guy.If the leader falters for one second, everyone stops working. Who shall it be? You will give up your life until it's done.

[Naughty Alien]

Would you like to see a leadwerks community project ? Yes.

 

If a project started, would you be a part of it? Depends.

 

Depends on people participating in. Even if whole team is really dedicated, doesn't feel right to do it with bunch of programmers only, so its kind a heading dead end at some point. Also, having in mind online communication/work, it doesn't make sense to be more than 4 people in team max. More than that will be hard to control, by assigned project leader. Then there is problem of 'transparency'..do people tend to openly share all code (source), media, etc..? Expectations out of final product, representing also danger for project to fail. In my humble opinion, it should be no expectations, except one and simple..to make game (project) up to determined standard, everybody agreed on. Part of 'agreement' should be a time frame when whole thing has to be completed. Time should have some reasonable tolerance, but not more than 15-20% of targeted time frame, or whole thing will just collapse. In general, problem here is basically 'what if' situation, and its rather hard to give proper answer or solution for it. Still, its incredible if achieved, and make some real results out there. Either case, its worth, if nothing, for learning curve purpose..

[Josh]

In my opinion, you need a project plan and a manager that assigns tasks, verifies outputs, and holds contributors accountable and on schedule. I don't think the project manager should even try to do anything else but manage it.

[Mumbles]

They always sound great on paper. But being part of one once (on this forum in fact), I soon felt way out of my depth, and I'm certainly part of the reason it never really worked....

[DigitalHax]

In my opinion, you need a project plan and a manager that assigns tasks, verifies outputs, and holds contributors accountable and on schedule. I don't think the project manager should even try to do anything else but manage it.

 

But the million dollar question is, would YOU be a part of it?

[gamecreator]

Let's hope not. He has better things to work on.

[DigitalHax]

Ok... Good point. Do you at least support it josh?

[AggrorJorn]

A community project is allways welcome. I have been team leader for teams existing out 6 people a couple of times. I like scheduling, planning, assigning tasks and creating a good overview. Like said by others: leadership is essential. No doubt the people involved in this project are willing to do their best, simply because he/she needs to have a copy of Leadwerks. I would be interessted in managing: setting up communication, control of documentation, creating tasks. Don't ge tme wrong: it's not the making of the game that is the challenge, it is the working together.

 

I am used to work via Scrum or in sprint based systems. Lets say we would all be in a chatroom:

 

Sprint 1 - Set up

1. Brainstorming session 1:

• Global game concept
  
• Genre (FPS, Strategy, Hack and slash)
  
• core gameplay mechanics (ea: running, crouching, phrone, jumping, weapon selection, weapon shooting, killling enemies, vehicles, upgrading, conversation etc. )
  

2. Brainstorming session 2:

• Group deviding and Sub teamleaders
  
  • Leaders
    
  • Programming
    
  • Level Design
    
  • Art
    
  • Music
    

  [*]Documentation Tools

  • Tools for documentation
    
  • Tools for progress
    
  • Tools for task control
    

  [*]Documentation

  • Global game info (short document on game genre, core mechanics, targets, rules of the project)
    
  • Game design (gameplay, animation, level design, Color schemes, characters)
    
  • Game technology (the working off inventory, upgrading, AI. Classes and game structure in generall)
    
  • Story, interaction (depending on)
    

  [*]Media management

  • Models
    
  • Maps
    
  • Textures
    
  • Art
    
  • Code
    
  • Storage, backup, syncing
    

Sprint 2 - Concepts and prototypes

1. Paper prototyping round 1

• Brainstorm about small prototypes: aka character control, inventory, driving, enemies
  
• Creating art work
  
• Evaluating progress and making up a first balance.
  
• Redefining direction and adjusting project flow (task management, adjusting game design documentation).
  
• Creating first prototypes and level designs.
  
  • Have to be tested and evaluated by the entire team for feedback
    

2. Paper prototyping round 2

• Fine tuning prototypes and level designs
  
• Preparing code for injection in main project
  

 

Sprint 3 - Main project

• Setting up the main project:
  
  • Programming (Solution)
    
  • Art Directory (models, sounds)
    
  • Levels/maps
    

Sprint 4 - Evaluation and finetuning

• Testing, bug reporting
  
• Fine tuning
  
• Some more testing...(a lot)
  

 

 

That roughly sums it up. I might have forgotten some points, but out the top of my head, thats how I would go to work.

[Rick]

I vote Aggror be the manager! Looks like he has his stuff together.

[Road Kill Kenny]

I'll sit this one out. Good luck

[Benton]

I vote Aggror be the manager! Looks like he has his stuff together.

 

I vote for him as well.

[gamecreator]

I vote for him to be your guys' manager too. Now help him complete his tower defense game.

[Benton]

Haha good point. Making some of the models is on my todo list.

[gamecreator]

I know how that works. I was trying to help Rick with his marble game and I made a little progress too but it's tough to stick with it. Not proud of the fact that that fizzled out on my end. People who can help others with their projects for major lengths of time are one of a kind.