Canardia Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Yeah I made the mistake to trust the testing build too much. While it worked fine as an upgrade on my gaming PC, it didn't work at all on a new installation on my W520 laptop. So as I'm standing, the stable 64-bit bit 6.0 (although the version shouldn't matter, because Debian stable is quaranteed stable at any time), is the standard solution to get a computer working properly. And regarding KDE, it seems Debian relies on GNOME on the default installation media 1. KDE might have looked more like XP, but GNOME just takes less resources, so I would say, use GNOME. You can configure GNOME to look like KDE anyway, and GNOME brings also all the good and fast tools like gparted. I know Linus Torvalds recommends KDE, but as he hates all the kernel bloating and ext3 and ext4, I would say that maybe he should revise his recommendation on GNOME too ■ Ryzen 9 ■ RX 6800M ■ 16GB ■ XF8 ■ Windows 11 ■ ■ Ultra ■ LE 2.5 ■ 3DWS 5.6 ■ Reaper ■ C/C++ ■ C# ■ Fortran 2008 ■ Story ■ ■ Homepage: https://canardia.com ■ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benton Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 You are certainly entitled to the opinion that people bashing the engine. You however are not entitled to tell them to stop. I never did... Windows 7 Professional 64 bit, 16 gigs ram, 3.30GHz Quad Core, GeForce GTX 460 one gig, Leadwerks 2.5, Blender 2.62, Photoshop CS3, UU3D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Kill Kenny Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I never did... Just drop it mate, there is no point continueing this arguement.... It won't change the end result anyway. Josh is gonna do what he's gonna do whether people bash it or not. STS - Scarlet Thread Studios AKA: Engineer Ken Fact: Game Development is hard... very bloody hard.. If you are not prepared to accept that.. Please give up now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Taylor Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I never did... This argument/discussion has gone on way to long. If you don't want to use it because LE2 works better, fine, that's good. But I have a problem with actually bashing it. ---- Let's just quit the argument at this point. There's no bashing going on in this thread. There are users legitimately concerned and upset about the sudden change. LE2 may work just fine now, but longterm support is one of the primary reasons for buying an engine. If the engine changes too much and no longer fits your needs, then it no longer is being supported in a manner conducive to your goals. A large portion of the vocal people in these boards have little interest in mobile dev. The sudden platform focus change is a legitimate concern. EDIT: I would like to mention, on a personal note, I'm fairly happy with the direction Josh is taking on this. Mobile games are here to stay. In fact I highly expect that within the next decade, our phones (or other such mobile device) will be our primary computers for most tasks. The only people still running Desktops or Laptops will be content creators, where the extra power may be necessary. And I'm not sure programmers really need all that much power in reality. There are three types of people in this world. People who make things happen. People who watch things happen. People who ask, "What happened?" Let's make things happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Kill Kenny Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 In fact I highly expect that within the next decade, our phones (or other such mobile device) will be our primary computers for most tasks. The only people still running Desktops or Laptops will be content creators, where the extra power may be necessary. And I'm not sure programmers really need all that much power in reality. Yes exactly. Desktops will fade out just like paper stopped being used when computers were invented.... wait... Edit: not trying to start another argument... just poking fun STS - Scarlet Thread Studios AKA: Engineer Ken Fact: Game Development is hard... very bloody hard.. If you are not prepared to accept that.. Please give up now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Please stop by this thread and give me some feedback: http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/topic/4987-interface-concept My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisV Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Well, I'm sure Josh doesn't want his powerful engine to become a toy with low end graphics, but mainly wants to support more OS/devices for his engine, which is not a bad thing for us indie developers. Better to have a few more options available (different OS/devices), than to stay focused on only one. Say you have a game finished for PC (made with LE3), and you could publish that same game on other OS/devices, wouldn't that be great? And, that is the path Josh is going for, I think. So yeah, if Josh has to rewrite the foundations of LE so that it can support lower end (mobile) devices, but is also capable of providing high end graphics (such as LE2) on PC/laptop, then...why not? I admit, I had my doubts at first, but it seems more and more that Josh is just rewriting the engine to support lower end devices, and at the same time make sure that LE also has the power to provide high end graphics. So, if that is the direction this is going, so much the better. It would mean that we can develop AAA games on PC, while also publish the same game on lower end machines. In fact I highly expect that within the next decade, our phones (or other such mobile device) will be our primary computers for most tasks. The only people still running Desktops or Laptops will be content creators, where the extra power may be necessary. Hum...I could be wrong, but I still believe PC's/laptops are here to stay. Not just for content creators, but also for gamers. PC's still have a better interaction with the games, such as bigger screen, higher resolutions, more disk space, options to mod a game, create new levels, easier methods to upgrade software/hardware, etc... Cheers My Artwork. ZBrush 4R7 64-bit - 3DCoat 4.5 BETA 12 - Fl Studio 12 64Bit - LE 3.2 Indie version - Truespace 7 - Blender 2.71 - iClone 5.51 Pro - iClone 3DXChange 5.51 pipeline - Kontakt 5 - Bryce 7 - UU3D Pro - Substance Designer/Painter - Shadermap 3 - PaintShop Photo Pro X7 - Hexagon - Audacity - Gimp 2.8 - Vue 2015 - Reaktor 5 - Guitar Rig 5 - Bitmap2Material 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Kill Kenny Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Hum...I could be wrong, but I still believe PC's/laptops are here to stay. Not just for content creators, but also for gamers. PC's still have a better interaction with the games, such as bigger screen, higher resolutions, more disk space, options to mod a game, create new levels, easier methods to upgrade software/hardware, etc... Not that I want to fuel an argument or anything but I'm pretty sure you are right Chris No matter how good tablets and mobile devices get they will never be as powerful as laptops and desktops of the same era. Simply put size matters. You can simply put more power with more space. Therefore the most advanced games will always be on PC and by the time mobile catches up, PC will already be on the next frontier. Not saying that a lot of people won't play mobile games, but the desktop PC and Laptop is here to stay.for sure. Just like paper is too. Could you imagine programming on a tablet? I don't even like to code without having 2 screens because the size matters and I want to be able to see a lot of code from different files all at once. STS - Scarlet Thread Studios AKA: Engineer Ken Fact: Game Development is hard... very bloody hard.. If you are not prepared to accept that.. Please give up now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I agree PC's will always be around. About coding on tablets though, I think a new future of programming will need to be created to make it so. You are actually for that future Ken. It's visual programming just like your editor. Take your idea, which you called on the extreme side of DDD, and get even more extreme with it to a point where everything is done visually sort of like you are doing it. That design fits perfect for mobile. Anything typing and I agree mobile sucks, but if the paradigm shifts to more visual programming, mobile with touchscreen will be nice for that. Imagine a nice smooth pinch to scale your buttons and moving them around with your fingertips while you sit in your chair on your deck with a beer in 1 hand and your tablet in your lap. I know there are many times where I'm out and about and would just love to do some visual coding on my phone to test an idea I just got. A least I have to either making a recording about the idea or try and type on my phone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Taylor Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Thats not quite what I meant about mobile devices replacing desktops. We're already starting to see it happen here and there. I highly expect our tower will be replaced by our cell phone/mobile device. Place it in a small docking station and we have a full monitor, keyboard and probably a mouse. There's little reason we couldn't do development on such a device. This is already starting to happen. There are three types of people in this world. People who make things happen. People who watch things happen. People who ask, "What happened?" Let's make things happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benton Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 So our phones become real Personal Computers, we can bring them around wherever. Go to the library, pop your phone/PC into a screen-mouse-keyboard dock and away you go. Windows 7 Professional 64 bit, 16 gigs ram, 3.30GHz Quad Core, GeForce GTX 460 one gig, Leadwerks 2.5, Blender 2.62, Photoshop CS3, UU3D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Taylor Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 So our phones become real Personal Computers, we can bring them around wherever. Go to the library, pop your phone/PC into a screen-mouse-keyboard dock and away you go. Exactly. We're smack dab in the middle of that shift right now. For example: http://usa.asus.com/Tablet/Transformer_Pad/ASUS_Transformer_Pad_TF300T/ I see this as only an intermediate step in that direction, but it is a step. Sales are doing fairly well. iOS even allows for bluetooth keyboards and devices (as I'm sure Android does as well). We're getting close. I predict we'll have a working device that does exactly what I talk about within five years. It'll see widespread use in ten with all the knockoffs that'll come about. There are three types of people in this world. People who make things happen. People who watch things happen. People who ask, "What happened?" Let's make things happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Kill Kenny Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Not saying mobile devices won't be used more and more and PC's generally less. Thats a given and its already happening. I'm not a fan but thats mostly because I mostly use computers for 3 things. internet, dev & games... dev and games are much better on PC... internet is ok on mobile but its not fast to navigate the web so I still prefer on PC. But thats just me, I know for a fact that a lot of people don't have PC's anymoer because they have a tablet. I guess a lot of people only really need internet and word processor. Edit: Forgot just one thing that personally trumps all: Screen size: I use 2 full HD 24inch screens and sometimes even my 42inch TV. I don't think I'll ever be fully happy with mobile platform screen size until it gets up to A3 size. I'm talking like an electronic visual diary. STS - Scarlet Thread Studios AKA: Engineer Ken Fact: Game Development is hard... very bloody hard.. If you are not prepared to accept that.. Please give up now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Taylor Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Edit: Forgot just one thing that personally trumps all: Screen size: I use 2 full HD 24inch screens and sometimes even my 42inch TV. I don't think I'll ever be fully happy with mobile platform screen size until it gets up to A3 size. I'm talking like an electronic visual diary. Remember, I highly expect to be able to simply dock our mobile device and be able to USE these larger screens. As for speed, they're getting faster and faster with each generation. The new ARM chips they are showing off are blazingly fast. And of course, when docked, they can use more power and achieve a higher speed. There are three types of people in this world. People who make things happen. People who watch things happen. People who ask, "What happened?" Let's make things happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benton Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 By the time I am out of collage and in the industry, I will probably developing on one of them. I mean, Blender, for instance, has been known to work on a phone. Windows 7 Professional 64 bit, 16 gigs ram, 3.30GHz Quad Core, GeForce GTX 460 one gig, Leadwerks 2.5, Blender 2.62, Photoshop CS3, UU3D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Kill Kenny Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 By the time I am out of collage and in the industry, I will probably developing on one of them. I mean, Blender, for instance, has been known to work on a phone. Of course it can. But is it practical Edit: Yeh i do understand they are getting faster and faster... However, at the same time so are desktops. Laptops ar the same concept here. They are highly mobile compared to desktop but they don't truly eliminate desktops in anyway. The majority of coders, artists and coders that I am aware of still use desktops despite a small few. STS - Scarlet Thread Studios AKA: Engineer Ken Fact: Game Development is hard... very bloody hard.. If you are not prepared to accept that.. Please give up now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Taylor Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Edit: Yeh i do understand they are getting faster and faster... However, at the same time so are desktops. Laptops ar the same concept here. They are highly mobile compared to desktop but they don't truly eliminate desktops in anyway. The majority of coders, artists and coders that I am aware of still use desktops despite a small few. Two things. 1) Desktops and laptops...really aren't getting any faster these days. They haven't for a while. i7's introduced hyper threading, which, in the general sense, is just better pipelining of instructions. The same number of instructions are being passed to the proc as the previous generation and at the same speed. Just fewer nop's are being used. 2) As for everyone using desktops over laptops...Thats debatable and very much subject to their field of choice. I live in the Bay Area of California. Very close to San Francisco and the Silicon Valley in general. The vast majority of coders around here are running laptops. This includes game developers. I'm not saying "laptops have taken over", but I would point out that laptops have been greatly outselling desktops since roughly 2004. There are three types of people in this world. People who make things happen. People who watch things happen. People who ask, "What happened?" Let's make things happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadmar Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Have been using gameing laptops the last 6 years, they are quite capable. Like Asus G-series or Alienware / Dell XPS-series HP Omen - 16GB - i7 - Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 2) As for everyone using desktops over laptops...Thats debatable and very much subject to their field of choice. I live in the Bay Area of California. Very close to San Francisco and the Silicon Valley in general. The vast majority of coders around here are running laptops. This includes game developers. I'm not saying "laptops have taken over", but I would point out that laptops have been greatly outselling desktops since roughly 2004. According to MS, in America laptops account for like 76% of PC sales. I won't ever buy one myself, because I can always get a better desktop for less money, and I find them awkward to use. My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Kill Kenny Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Not saying a laptop isn't capable and that people don't use them... Once again all I'm saying is I doubt desktops will ever die. STS - Scarlet Thread Studios AKA: Engineer Ken Fact: Game Development is hard... very bloody hard.. If you are not prepared to accept that.. Please give up now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Taylor Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Not saying a laptop isn't capable and that people don't use them... Once again all I'm saying is I doubt desktops will ever die. I don't think anyone claimed anything to the contrary. It just won't be the norm. There are three types of people in this world. People who make things happen. People who watch things happen. People who ask, "What happened?" Let's make things happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassius Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I got bad eyesight so a large screen desktop pc plus the microsoft magnifier is the only way for me. I also have a large letter keyboard with black letters on a yellow background. The sound is also better on a desktop. amd quad core 4 ghz / geforce 660 ti 2gb / win 10 Blender,gimp,silo2,ac3d,,audacity,Hexagon / using c++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaron Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Josh, you're absolutely right. Mobile dev is the way to go. I make about $1000 per month with a simple Battleship game (I can provide the links and stats if anyone is interested) and this is a simple 2d game. It took me about 2 months to code it. If you want to make money, go mobile. Especially as a lone wulf or with a small team you can still do amazing things. That reminds me on the good old days of the C64... (Compare that with the development time for a PC game!) LE3 will be an instant buy for me, no matter which price. If you want to make AAA games for PC, you can already use LE2. Just port it to LE3 when it's finished. Just one question. Will there be a Monkey interface? Will LE3 have sockets? Triassic Games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Red Ocktober Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 @Xaron... i hate you... seriously though... i think that's where a lot of us want to be, moneymaking wise... at least at a minimum... and there's lil doubt that the numbers with mobile are there... and growing... phones/mobile are almost irresistible... i've seen your game in my travels... looks good... congrats on its success... --Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 LE3 will be an instant buy for me, no matter which price. In other news, "moneybags" Xaron is now my only customer. I only need to make one sale! XD My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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