Game Producer Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 So, this summer then Josh, right? That's the plan. Summer ends in June, right Josh? Intel Dual Core 3GHz / GeForce GTS 450 - 1024 MB / Driver ver 267.59 / 8 GB RAM / Win 7 - 64 bit / LE2.50 / BMAX 1.48 game producer blog - Dead Wake Zombie Game powered by Leadwerks Engine Twitter - Unfollow me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Summer ends in June, right Josh? No, summer starts in June... You can't rush these things... A British Summer however begins in the third week of May, and ends in the second week of June... LE Version: 2.50 (Eventually) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Producer Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 In Finland, summer begins June 21st and ends June 28th. After that, it's 11+ months dark winter, cold and snow. Intel Dual Core 3GHz / GeForce GTS 450 - 1024 MB / Driver ver 267.59 / 8 GB RAM / Win 7 - 64 bit / LE2.50 / BMAX 1.48 game producer blog - Dead Wake Zombie Game powered by Leadwerks Engine Twitter - Unfollow me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canardia Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 In Australia it's already Winter, and still no Leadwerks3D alpha for testing? ■ Ryzen 9 ■ RX 6800M ■ 16GB ■ XF8 ■ Windows 11 ■ ■ Ultra ■ LE 2.5 ■ 3DWS 5.6 ■ Reaper ■ C/C++ ■ C# ■ Fortran 2008 ■ Story ■ ■ Homepage: https://canardia.com ■ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallingbrickwork Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Unity costs actually $5000, if you want all features enabled, so that it matches the features of Leadwerks3D: Unity Pro = $1500 +Unity Android Pro = $1500 +Unity iOS Pro = $1500 +Git addon for Editor = $500 Total = $5000 I'm sorry but this is just not correct. Infact, if you had gone past the Unity website a few weeks ago you could have got an iOS and Android license for free... before you start saying pro is required, then it's not, but we wont go down that argument. So, it's actually $400 or $800 if you want both Android and iOS. Yet again it's the Metatron stats telling everyone some gospel. Even if $5000 was the cost, so what...?!... it's cheap, very cheap... if you believe in your project, which you must do if it is to succeed. What's $5000 if you sell 1million units @ $1.99, and i know guys who have. Most people release mobile apps and 30mins later they are off the 'new releases' and lost in the app swamp which is mobile dev. I think Josh should market the LE3D licence at $1000+. My actual post is about people thinking that Leadwerks3D is going to add mobile apps to their bow and bring in monies etc... it is not. Even if LE3D was free, 99% of people wont make anything, and won't make a penny without ploughing $1000's into marketing. There are already multiple avenues for mobile dev.... unity, shiva, UDK, Cocos2D, plus native coding... the list is vast. What do you think LE3D is going to bring to you? Most of the time, mobile dev is pushed by the technology, not the development environment/engine. Certain things can and can't be done due to hardware constraints etc. My point is... if mobile dev is that important to you, you would have done it by now using another avenue. The market is swamped and all-but dead! Standalone PC and Mac via Steam etc is becoming the new indie market. Due to this, I think Josh's idea of targeting mobile in the first instance is a mistake. LE was always more cutting-edge standalone. It was up there with CryEngine and Unreal, but affordable. LE cannot compete with the likes of Unity with mobile markets. Yes, LE may offer high spec but UDK have this with CryEngine coming no doubt... also, who cares about high end tech on mobile. Ask the public what they are playing. Even Unigine are tailoring for more cross platform and limiting their renderer giving LE even more potential to push forward. Not sure why LE doesn't play to it's strengths and try and corner the highend... i fear LE will be lost in the engine noise if it continues it's current direction (but that is just my opinion). It will be 'Jack of all trades, Master of none'. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I don't like people comparing their idea of a product they have never seen to something else, and speculating which is better. I'm not keen on releasing too much information yet why Leadwerks3D is significantly better for mobile development, but there are some big reasons why we will win in that space, among a big portion of users. There are some huge missing pieces no one is providing for mobile right now. Please wait until you see the actual program before making a judgement. My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I think Josh should market the LE3D licence at $1000+. Damn, I hope he doesn't charge that I like to think of this as Josh putting himself into position for 5+ years down the line when who knows what mobile technology has in store for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canardia Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Leadwerks3D $1000, ShiVa3D $4000 (with server), Unity3D $5000. Then LE3D would be still the cheapest with the fastest and most advanced features. ■ Ryzen 9 ■ RX 6800M ■ 16GB ■ XF8 ■ Windows 11 ■ ■ Ultra ■ LE 2.5 ■ 3DWS 5.6 ■ Reaper ■ C/C++ ■ C# ■ Fortran 2008 ■ Story ■ ■ Homepage: https://canardia.com ■ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallingbrickwork Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I don't like people comparing their idea of a product they have never seen to something else, and speculating which is better. I'm not keen on releasing too much information yet why Leadwerks3D is significantly better for mobile development, but there are some big reasons why we will win in that space, among a big portion of users. There are some huge missing pieces no one is providing for mobile right now. Please wait until you see the actual program before making a judgement. I'm sorry Josh but that is just daft. Just because *you* don't like people comparing their idea of a product, doesn't mean they don't. Unless you tell, people will continue to compare and get incorrect ideas/thoughts. My worry is if we *continue to wait* to see the actual program it will be too late. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Leadwerks3D $1000, ShiVa3D $4000 (with server), Unity3D $5000. Then LE3D would be still the cheapest with the fastest and most advanced features. He would have to provide a free version then to be on par with those.I bet the majority of users of Unity use the free version and only after they feel their product is worth something (which a small % even get to) then will they pay for the upgrades. $1K is nothing to sneeze at if you only think you have a good idea and can actually pull it off. I'm sure we all have our cutoffs but $250 would be on my high end coming from an upgrade point of view. Anything over that and I'd just stick with LE2 to see if a game idea is worth anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallingbrickwork Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 On a personal note, I Ieft LE to do mobile dev using Unity a few years ago (so i can see both sides of the coin) and i'm looking to come back! LOL! It is not a money holy grail everyone seems to think. The mobile indie market is dying. I am getting frustrated with Unity's mobile mission, and what do i find... LE is going the same way. Leadwerks3D $1000, ShiVa3D $4000 (with server), Unity3D $5000. Then LE3D would be still the cheapest with the fastest and most advanced features. We don't NEED advanced features for mobile, don't you see. million+ copies sold of a 2D scroller and you are worried about 'advanced features'. All you need is to *get out there and do it*. Realtime shadows, higher poly counts etc only bring higher dev costs, not higher sales. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixel Perfect Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 The simple truth is Josh there is nothing you can put in place, as a small one man band developer, that if it seriously threatens the market places of the big guys like Unity they won't be able to duplicate within a short time period. If you have a genuine competative edge technically then you will need to sell a lot of licences very quicky. You do have a competative edge cost wise as your overheads are low and this would be your greatest asset if you can keep the cost down. I agree with the previous comments that expecting people to not compare is unrealistic, it's human nature to do that ... rightly or wrongly. Intel Core i5 2.66 GHz, Asus P7P55D, 8Gb DDR3 RAM, GTX460 1Gb DDR5, Windows 7 (x64), LE Editor, GMax, 3DWS, UU3D Pro, Texture Maker Pro, Shader Map Pro. Development language: C/C++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canardia Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 We don't NEED advanced features for mobile, don't you see. million+ copies sold of a 2D scroller and you are worried about 'advanced features'. All you need is to *get out there and do it*. Realtime shadows, higher poly counts etc only bring higher dev costs, not higher sales.The market is full of 2D **** games, that's why nobody buys them. There is no engine on the market yet which can do decent 3D graphics on mobile, and that brings a new market opportunity. ■ Ryzen 9 ■ RX 6800M ■ 16GB ■ XF8 ■ Windows 11 ■ ■ Ultra ■ LE 2.5 ■ 3DWS 5.6 ■ Reaper ■ C/C++ ■ C# ■ Fortran 2008 ■ Story ■ ■ Homepage: https://canardia.com ■ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallingbrickwork Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 The market is full of 2D **** games, that's why nobody buys them. There is no engine on the market yet which can do decent 3D graphics on mobile, and that brings a new market opportunity. I'm sorry but you are wrong. Yes, the market is full of 2D **** games, and yes, people DO buy them. Mobile is about casual gaming. sitting on a train/bus playing. Retro 2D is the new modern. To say there are no decent 3D on mobile is also false.... have you not seen Shadowgun?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Taylor Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 The market is full of 2D **** games, that's why nobody buys them. There is no engine on the market yet which can do decent 3D graphics on mobile, and that brings a new market opportunity. @Josh I'm gonna stay out of this in terms of "what engine is better", etc. Until we see a final product, it's all guesswork at best from our end. As we've seen before, we disagree on a few things. Even so, I think we both agree that there is a lot of potential for Leadwerks in the future. I wish you the best of luck. @Metatron As mentioned, I'm not getting into the "which engine is better" debate. I will however point out that there are several engines that can do 3D on mobile quite well. Unity, UDK and Shiva. There are three types of people in this world. People who make things happen. People who watch things happen. People who ask, "What happened?" Let's make things happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixel Perfect Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 The market is full of 2D **** games, that's why nobody buys them. There is no engine on the market yet which can do decent 3D graphics on mobile, and that brings a new market opportunity. That sounds like a comment from someone who comes from a PC and console gaming background and really doesn't understand the mobile market place, it's not and never has been about playing 3D games! I have 3D games on my mobile, they are unplayable imo ... it's just not enjoyable on small devices which is why the majority of sales are for simple 2D based games. Intel Core i5 2.66 GHz, Asus P7P55D, 8Gb DDR3 RAM, GTX460 1Gb DDR5, Windows 7 (x64), LE Editor, GMax, 3DWS, UU3D Pro, Texture Maker Pro, Shader Map Pro. Development language: C/C++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexman Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Where's the popcorn emote? What year is it where you are? It's 2012 here. Maybe we can spin this thread out another 15 pages before it's released. 6600 2.4G / GTX 460 280.26 / 4GB Windows 7 Author: GROME Terrain Modeling for Unity, UDK, Ogre3D from PackT Tricubic Studios Ltd. ~ Combat Helo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canardia Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 That sounds like a comment from someone who comes from a PC and console gaming background and really doesn't understand the mobile market place, it's not and never has been about playing 3D games! I have 3D games on my mobile, they are unplayable imo ... it's just not enjoyable on small devices which is why the majority of sales are for simple 2D based games. I played one 3D futuristic racer game an Android, and it was way better than any 2D game I've ever played on mobile. The touchscreen is quite horrible for games, so you should rely only on 3D tilt movements of the phone. My Galaxy S2 screen is also much too small to play games or piano or guiter decently on it, so games should be rather designed for a 10 inch Android screen. And the iPhone screen is even smaller. ■ Ryzen 9 ■ RX 6800M ■ 16GB ■ XF8 ■ Windows 11 ■ ■ Ultra ■ LE 2.5 ■ 3DWS 5.6 ■ Reaper ■ C/C++ ■ C# ■ Fortran 2008 ■ Story ■ ■ Homepage: https://canardia.com ■ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Red Ocktober Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 "It's about the future, Madam Chancellor. Some people think the future means the end of history. Well, we haven't run out of history just yet... People can be very frightened of change." - Captain James T. Kirk in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country --Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Kill Kenny Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Where's the popcorn emote? What year is it where you are? It's 2012 here. Maybe we can spin this thread out another 15 pages before it's released. "It's about the future, Madam Chancellor. Some people think the future means the end of history. Well, we haven't run out of history just yet... People can be very frightened of change." - Captain James T. Kirk in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country --Mike Sounds like a plan.... too bad we can't make quote pyramids. That would make this thread way more interesting.Edit Edit: Wait I take that back. Quote Pyramid created STS - Scarlet Thread Studios AKA: Engineer Ken Fact: Game Development is hard... very bloody hard.. If you are not prepared to accept that.. Please give up now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Red Ocktober Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 pix... please pass the popcorn... --Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tournamentdan Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 I have been away for a little bit. I became rather tired of reading after page 6 and have now skipped to the end so I do apologize if I am repeating what someone else has said. Even though I am like some others here and at this time have no use for phone games. I will gladly buy the initial release of LE3D. Why you may ask? Because I know that money will help secure the future support for leadwerks. A lot of people here for some time have been crying for the release of Leadwerks3D. This is my question to those people. If Leadwerks3D was released tomorrow and it had every feature you could imagine? How soon until you release your game? One month? Two months? I doubt it. So my suggestion is to get as much done as you can. Most likely by the time you are ready for LE3D it will be done. With some nice features that Josh has been slaving over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 To answer the OP, no firm release date has been set but we are shooting for some time this summer. 1 My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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