Xaron Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Ok, I don't want to troll here and won't ask for a release date but have a different kind of question. Nowadays all big engines seem to be editor based like Unity or ShiVa. I'm more the programmer guy coming from a BlitzBasic background even though I love to use C++ but never got warm with all these editors. Look, I want to load a mesh and place it via code, I'd like to create a light and all that stuff without being forced to use an editor. Now my question, will that be possible with LE 3? Quote Triassic Games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canardia Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Yes, LE3 has full programmatic access to all engine commands and features, because its Editor is using the DLL too. 1 Quote ■ Ryzen 9 ■ RX 6800M ■ 16GB ■ XF8 ■ Windows 11 ■ ■ Ultra ■ LE 2.5 ■ 3DWS 5.6 ■ Reaper ■ C/C++ ■ C# ■ Fortran 2008 ■ Story ■ ■ Homepage: https://canardia.com ■ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaron Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 Excellent! Thanks! Quote Triassic Games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Kill Kenny Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 If this wasn't the case just about all prior LE2 users would have left by now. Quote STS - Scarlet Thread Studios AKA: Engineer Ken Fact: Game Development is hard... very bloody hard.. If you are not prepared to accept that.. Please give up now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 There are layers. C++ coders can access the entire API directly, and they can work together with designers working in the editor with scripts and flowgraph stuff. Quote My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaron Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 That's cool. So how is that supposed to work with Android for instance. Can I use C++ there as well, do you use the NDK there? iOS shouldn't be a big issue as it can run C++ wrapped with Obj-C?! Isn't that deep at night over there at your place? Quote Triassic Games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 There are layers See LE3 is like an onion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaron Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 Another one: How different will LE3 be compared to LE2.5 API wise? Or: How hard will it be to move a project from LE2.5 to LE3? Quote Triassic Games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Kill Kenny Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 See LE3 is like an onion... ... or an ogre @Xaron the API commands will be similar, however, as it is written in C++ and there is some new functionality, and some less :|, there will be differences. It shouldn't be too hard but definately not a "Find & Replace" Job. Quote STS - Scarlet Thread Studios AKA: Engineer Ken Fact: Game Development is hard... very bloody hard.. If you are not prepared to accept that.. Please give up now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernaut Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 The world editor or level editor in LE 3 does not look the same as LE 2 world editor which has a good perspective view. Can the LE 3 world editor be switched to perspective view mode only ? Quote LEADWERKS 2.5 Leadwerks Engine Documentation http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/page/Documentation/le2 Leadwerks Engine Wiki http://web.archive.org/web/20120728123827/http://www.leadwerks.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page Leadwerks 2 wiki moving to Google Drive https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BxLsUYPSspxcfms3bmpvQlBSVjVYREljSElpQ3JfTmQydzg4anExZ2Fyb0I3NjZxSmkwd1E&usp=drive_web Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassius Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I think the le3 editor is similar to 3dws. Quote amd quad core 4 ghz / geforce 660 ti 2gb / win 10 Blender,gimp,silo2,ac3d,,audacity,Hexagon / using c++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassius Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 How important will CPU power be in le3, compared to le2. Will animations be largley GPU driven? Quote amd quad core 4 ghz / geforce 660 ti 2gb / win 10 Blender,gimp,silo2,ac3d,,audacity,Hexagon / using c++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouGroove Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Will a complete game be able to be written interely as script ? (For example a game having Dialog, combat, system, inventory , special effects , levels loading , game save ) Is there some approximative year quarter date for some beta access for LE 2.5 owners ? (It is a year already since i bought LE 2.5, but i'm more 3D artist and use lot more scripting and i'm betting on LE3 new system and workflow) Quote Stop toying and make games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Kill Kenny Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Will a complete game be able to be written interely as script ? (For example a game having Dialog, combat, system, inventory , special effects , levels loading , game save ) Is there some approximative year quarter date for some beta access for LE 2.5 owners ? (It is a year already since i bought LE 2.5, but i'm more 3D artist and use lot more scripting and i'm betting on LE3 new system and workflow) Apparently you can write a game entirely in script but I doubt it will be very easy and will be very messy when you try make it more than just one level that plays instantly. I personally don't see how it would be any easier to write a full architecture in script than in code as the concepts will still be the same. If you are using script to write an entire game then it really isn't script is it.. it's actually just code using a different language with all the overheads that come along with that so I don't see the point of using it for an entire game. Fact is making games is hard and although LE3 may assist in that way more than LE2 it won't magically make your game for you. I can see a lot of people being dissapointed because their expectations were un-realistic. Quote STS - Scarlet Thread Studios AKA: Engineer Ken Fact: Game Development is hard... very bloody hard.. If you are not prepared to accept that.. Please give up now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamecreator Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 LE2 it won't magically make your game for you. Whoa whoa whoa, back up a second. I'm pretty sure that was the second or third feature in one of Josh's blogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 The way I see it, and I'm using C++ for my game now and love working with C++, is that script will provide an easier deployment and faster development time (for some games) to all platforms. We have to understand that not all games are OMG AMAZING AAA FPS games. There are people making a decent living on mobile platforms selling 2D images of bobbleheads for gods sake. There is a middle ground. In engines like Unity this is the only way to make a game and that community has games coming out of it just fine. Lua also provides some out of the box functionality (like coroutines) that some of the other languages don't. Not that you can't mimic it, but that's precious development time and/or a library that you hope works on mobile platform if you plan to target it. In other words, not taking any prior context of YouGroove, yes you should be able to make an entire game from script. How good that game will be is up to your own ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I think Lua is actually easier to use when you're making more complex games, due to its modular nature. Ideally, you probably want to use a mix of native and script code. Quote My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixel Perfect Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Geeez I'm so bored of this script versus native language and do I have to use coding at all argument ... it's what's stopped most people doing anything in LE2 and I can just see this continuing in LE3. Just do it .. simple as and stop always looking for excuses not to. Not everyone can code, in the same way as not everyone can model. If you are a **** coder you'll be a **** scripter. People need to team up with others that have the skills they lack and then the games might actually come to fruition instead of remaining pipe dreams. Quote Intel Core i5 2.66 GHz, Asus P7P55D, 8Gb DDR3 RAM, GTX460 1Gb DDR5, Windows 7 (x64), LE Editor, GMax, 3DWS, UU3D Pro, Texture Maker Pro, Shader Map Pro. Development language: C/C++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Well if you're not a coder you can go one level up and just attach scripts and use the flow graph. At some point you will need to crack open the script editor, but with the community you will probably have a lot of premade scripts to choose from. There's three levels of Leadwerks 3: -Native code -Script -Flowgraph / script properties So programmers, scripters, and designers can all work together. Quote My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixel Perfect Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Whilst that may be the plan, that was true to a large degree of LE2 too ... but it never happened. Besides, your game will always be more limited and restricted using this strategy and you are still dependent on others although no longer in a direct way. I simply don't understand where this insistence on having to be a one man show comes from, very few people spend there working lives on their own, we work as teams and it's this direct working relationship that really pays the dividends! Quote Intel Core i5 2.66 GHz, Asus P7P55D, 8Gb DDR3 RAM, GTX460 1Gb DDR5, Windows 7 (x64), LE Editor, GMax, 3DWS, UU3D Pro, Texture Maker Pro, Shader Map Pro. Development language: C/C++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernaut Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Is LE3 editor similar to 3D World Studio ? Quote LEADWERKS 2.5 Leadwerks Engine Documentation http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/page/Documentation/le2 Leadwerks Engine Wiki http://web.archive.org/web/20120728123827/http://www.leadwerks.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page Leadwerks 2 wiki moving to Google Drive https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BxLsUYPSspxcfms3bmpvQlBSVjVYREljSElpQ3JfTmQydzg4anExZ2Fyb0I3NjZxSmkwd1E&usp=drive_web Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canardia Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Yes, it has also 4 viewport view: top, right, front, 3D; and it has brushes. If there ever will be 3DWS 6, it will be based on LE3's Editor. Actually Leadwerks Engine was born from 3DWS originally, and then their paths diverged, and now they join again Quote ■ Ryzen 9 ■ RX 6800M ■ 16GB ■ XF8 ■ Windows 11 ■ ■ Ultra ■ LE 2.5 ■ 3DWS 5.6 ■ Reaper ■ C/C++ ■ C# ■ Fortran 2008 ■ Story ■ ■ Homepage: https://canardia.com ■ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMAN Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I use vim + syntastic catches some of my dumb mistakes. I also use assert a lot. For a manly .vimrc checkout https://github.com/f...r/vim-settings. Compilation doesn't save you from logical mistakes. That is what unit tests are for. For lua I have been using busted. I havn't gotten it to build on windows yet. It works out of the box with *nix. https://github.com/Olivine-Labs/busted There is definitely tooling to help manage the complexity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canardia Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 John Carmack blogged about PC-Lint, which is somekind of C++ sanity checker, seems quite powerful, and the online demos are also quite intriguing: http://www.gimpel-on...ineTesting.html Quote ■ Ryzen 9 ■ RX 6800M ■ 16GB ■ XF8 ■ Windows 11 ■ ■ Ultra ■ LE 2.5 ■ 3DWS 5.6 ■ Reaper ■ C/C++ ■ C# ■ Fortran 2008 ■ Story ■ ■ Homepage: https://canardia.com ■ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Whilst that may be the plan, that was true to a large degree of LE2 too ... but it never happened. Besides, your game will always be more limited and restricted using this strategy and you are still dependent on others although no longer in a direct way. The Leadwerks 3 implementation of Lua is different because: The debugging tools weren't as good as what we have now. The new flowgraph provides a standard framework for communication between scripted objects. Scripts in LE2 were unique per model. This was based on the idea that script was just programming, in another language. The new model makes scripts more reusable. The normal usage model now is attaching scripts to entities and adjusting parameters, not necessarily writing code. It's like the difference between placing premade 3D models in a scene and modeling everything from scratch in 3ds max. 1 Quote My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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