SnakebitSamurai Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I'd like to see support for Allegorithmic Substances. Full materials in a teensy package Max, Maya, Unity and a few others already have native support. Not to mention the materials you can create with Substance Designer. Check it out: http://www.allegorit...ucts/substances He who joyfully marches to the music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice. - Albert Einstein Intel Core 2 Duo 3 GHz / 4GB RAM / GeForce 9800 GTX OC 1 GB Silo 2/Hexagon 2.5, Photoshop CS4 Extended, UU3D, Sony Acid Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I do not use any closed-source third party code. We are never going to be a middleware arbitrage company. My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canardia Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Here is a open-source and free procedural texture library with full C++ source code: http://libnoise.sour...ures/index.html ■ Ryzen 9 ■ RX 6800M ■ 16GB ■ XF8 ■ Windows 11 ■ ■ Ultra ■ LE 2.5 ■ 3DWS 5.6 ■ Reaper ■ C/C++ ■ C# ■ Fortran 2008 ■ Story ■ ■ Homepage: https://canardia.com ■ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 With anything like this, there's no super-compelling reason to not just export to a regular image file. You could potentially save some storage space at the cost of increasing load times. Not saying it's a terrible tool for artists, but our strategy isn't buying middleware at one price and selling it at another. I've seen these kind of things be the flavor of the week for many years, and it's always about hype more than technology. How many people are still asking about SpeedTree? My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumanshoo Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Thank god I stumbled upon this! I never heard of Speed Tree until now and it looks amazing from what I've seen. Is it compatible with Leadwerks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Why would you want me to replace our vegetation rendering system with something less powerful? Troll post, right? My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumanshoo Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 NONONO! I love your veggie system, but I do not enjoy modeling the trees. Blender has a nice plug-in application for tree modeling, but it is not very fun to use because it's not as flexible as Speed Tree looks. Plus moss and things like that look very easy in Speed Tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumanshoo Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 The trees that come with LE are also kinda skinny for what I am working on... I'm sure I could just scale them up or something, but it would just be easier to export big trees right out of Blender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumanshoo Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Nevermind, Speed Tree costs $900 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knocks Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 The true power of substance is its real time applications. My first Adobe purchase was Photoshop 2.0, CS6 was my last! < = > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Nevermind, Speed Tree costs $900 If you talk to the SpeedTree people, they are very firm about their product being an SDK, not the modeling tool. My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Kill Kenny Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Leadwerks + SpeedTree = Leadwerks with Royalties.... no thanks STS - Scarlet Thread Studios AKA: Engineer Ken Fact: Game Development is hard... very bloody hard.. If you are not prepared to accept that.. Please give up now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastar Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I agree with knocks, the real-time aspect of substances makes them interesting, and I guess it would be OK if they would be integrated with a plugin system? Regarding trees: I've recently stumbled across an open-source tool called ngplant (http://ngplant.sourceforge.net/). Haven't looked too deeply into it up to now, but seems to be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 This actually raises a good point. Is Leadwerks to become an interface for third parties to showcase bits of technology with? I think when you get to that point, it means real internal innovation is pretty much over. A game engine has a life cycle, and a finite number of features that can be added to it that still make an impact. Opening things up to third party plugins is something that can extend that life a bit, but doesn't make for a very well-planned or cohesive experience. I see these types of things as "extra" that come after the internal innovation ends. It's a way to stay relevant and try to stay in the news. My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastar Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I dunno. One of the main reasons Eclipse took off was its flexible plugin architecture. Some of those plugins were commercial, many of them open-source. While I agree that the core of an application has to be driven by a cohesive vision and implementation, making it easier to extend it around the edges can still provide benefit without compromising the original goals. A simple way to extend the editor with specific menus, dialogs etc for one's own workflow, e.g., would be a nice thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Eclipse is one of the worst pieces of software I've ever seen because it is so disjointed and badly designed. 4 My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixel Perfect Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I thought the whole idea of plugin architecture was to allow people who specialize in areas to provide that specialist functionality. With the best will in the world Josh you can't be all things to all men. Besides, plugins are up to the end user to implement at their own discretion. There will be good and poor quality plugins for sure, but I fail to see that the use of a poor plugin reflects more negatively on your engine than someone choosing say to use really poor textures and level design for instance, which is already totally out of your control. I'm an advocate of opening up systems not locking them down, as I've stated before, and I believe it would make your product more attractive. Intel Core i5 2.66 GHz, Asus P7P55D, 8Gb DDR3 RAM, GTX460 1Gb DDR5, Windows 7 (x64), LE Editor, GMax, 3DWS, UU3D Pro, Texture Maker Pro, Shader Map Pro. Development language: C/C++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastar Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Seriously, I've seen designs much worse than that of Eclipse. And you could even say it proves the point: It has acquired a very large user base in spite of its design because it can be easily adapted to different users' needs. What would be so different about plugins than, say, tweaking or even replacing the default shaders for things like oceans and SSAO or exchanging scripts for day-and-night-modeling (assets that, by the way, let me finally drop the CryEngine in favor of LE because I wouldn't miss a single thing)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 You are asking for an undefined feature with no potential user in mind, and just expecting wonderful unspecified things to come from that. That's not design, it's a lack of design. It would be premature to try to implement anything like that right now. In order to do it properly, I would have to get at least two middleware authors interested and work with them to figure out where they need hooks inserted into the engine. No one is interested in doing that with an unreleased game engine. You're putting the cart before the horse. My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMAN Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I think some interesting things could be done with lua and ffi to talk back to leadwerks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixel Perfect Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 You are asking for an undefined feature with no potential user in mind, and just expecting wonderful unspecified things to come from that. That's not design, it's a lack of design. It would be premature to try to implement anything like that right now. It's just as easy to find reasons for doing something as it is for not doing something ... it's just a mindset thing! This has been spoken about many times before in these forums, so it's not like its come out of the blue. No-one is saying it has to be there at the initial release. It would just be nice to have a plugin architecture on the road map at some point. The world is full of creative people, how about giving them a chance to surprise you 3 Intel Core i5 2.66 GHz, Asus P7P55D, 8Gb DDR3 RAM, GTX460 1Gb DDR5, Windows 7 (x64), LE Editor, GMax, 3DWS, UU3D Pro, Texture Maker Pro, Shader Map Pro. Development language: C/C++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Red Ocktober Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 also... you're just one person... you're not going to be able do everything yourself... Leadwerks cannot be expected to be everything to every dame developer... This actually raises a good point. Is Leadwerks to become an interface for third parties to showcase bits of technology with? I think when you get to that point, it means real internal innovation is pretty much over. i don't think that this is true... the use of third party addons won't in any way be an intrusion... and, as said above, this can be looked at later... --Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 also... you're just one person... you're not going to be able do everything yourself... Leadwerks cannot be expected to be everything to every dame developer... There's two of us, plus the half-dozen contractors I rely on from time to time. Have you asked the actual authors of this lib why they aren't contacting me to integrate it with Leadwerks? I react negatively to requests for brand names. Last time this happened was PureLight. A campaign started on this forum with people insisting they couldn't make a game without baked GI loghtmaps like they saw in GarageGame's promotional videos. I met with them, we integrated the product, and when it was finally released, people were angry because it was no longer the flavor of the week and they had moved on to something else. My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Red Ocktober Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 TWO !! oh... well that makes a world of difference... so... i guess i can now expect all sorts of capabilities that already exist out there in gaming land to also appear in Leadwerks... streaming terrain, unlimited oceans, real world topology, VR headset integration... all sorts of neat stuff... and maybe some of it might happen THIS "spring"... seeing as last "winter" has already been postponed... or are we going to have to wait for the Leadwerks version of the wheel to been recreated... hey... you're gonna go in whatever direction you decide... we're just offering some suggestions, some of which might be worth a just lil consideration... --Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 None of these flash in the pan middleware authors are interested in writing a plugin for Leadwerks. They integrate with Unity because they are trying to get as much visibility as possible so they can convince Autodesk to buy them out. They will not be interested in a game engine with a small user base. The only way to change that is to grow the user base. The only way to grow the user base is have a tight focus on a really good game development environment, not by chasing after every trend of the week. Most of these authors in fact are not even interested in selling a "plugin". What they want is for me to buy their middleware and build it into my engine. I am against this because I do not want to pass on licensing restrictions to source code licensees. I also think it's BS to license middleware for its brand name and then resell it at a lower price. It dilutes our name and is often totally unnecessary (Umbra). Leadwerks is a technology company. We're not a middleware bargaining collective. 4 My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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