Leadwerks 3 Beta Evaluation Kit

[Pancakes]

I was really surprised not to see the Leadwerks 2 amazing lighting and vegetation at the forefront in the demo of Leadwerks 3. I would really like to stick with Leadwerks in spite of my overall "meh" experience with support but my two favorite features aren't being shown in the Beta of Leadwerks 3 at all. I was a bit surprised to have to "Build Lighting" in Leadwerks. Not having to build lighting was my favorite thing about Leadwerks considering that I put up with how much I hated using UU3d just so I could experience the Leadwerks technology.

 

The lighting is the reason I came to Leadwerks. And the flowgraphs are the thing that would keep me with Leadwerks. I would ask when these would be made available in the new release but I can't remember the last time Josh has given me a straight answer to any of my questions. So I will cross my fingers that someone he does like to answer will ask these two questions in my place.

 

So if Josh ignores me again would someone he doesn't usually ignore please ask him these 3 questions and then perhaps PM me the answer:

 

1. When will the advanced lighting of Leadwerks 2 return or are they already in there and I don't know how to get to them?

2. When will we get more info on the Flowgraph workflow and how they are going to be used in the long run?

3. Just want to hear directly that Ultimate Unwrap3d is no longer needed ever ever ever ever ever.

 

I will say that I was willing to pay $499 or even $999 for a Leadwerks 3 that had all the positives of Leadwerks 2 plus completed and fleshed out flowgraphs and liberation from Ultimate Unwrap. But at this time I'm looking for clarification on the lighting and the flowgraphs and the liberation from UU3d.

[Canardia]

3. Just want to hear directly that Ultimate Unwrap3d is no longer needed ever ever ever ever ever.

Since Blender has now FBX export in the default setup, it can replace the need for UU3D, whose purpose is not only to convert models to GMF, but also to check for errors in the model (like unresetted transforms from 3DSMAX). The pipeline Blender -> FBX -> FBX2GMF -> LE2 works really well, and it should work with LE3 too.

[YouGroove]

Having to stick with multiple 3D tools is old school 3D engine way.

Nowadays a lot support Blender models and animations throught FBX. Unity supports directly Blender models as it converts them behind the scene when you import.

 

LE 3 priority is Mobile what i think is the best strategy, specially for us indies in terms of publishing and market.

So i think for big PC games , lightening, terrain , other features won't be here a bunch of time.

I've gonna with LE 3 for mobile , not for PC.

 

The new workflow and game framework are not comparable to LE2, now we can focus lot more in game making.

[Josh]

1. When will the advanced lighting of Leadwerks 2 return or are they already in there and I don't know how to get to them?

I'm not going to start planning 3.1 until the 3.0 users start providing some feedback and I see what they need most. High-end graphics are extremely time consuming, in terms of development and maintenance. The technical challenges aren't a problem, but we need to build up the user base more before we can support that move, and do it properly with a good user interface and documentation. Leadwerks 3 is presently very very good at making games that run on multiple platforms, and we need to get everyone up to speed before I go back into another R&D cycle. However, the current foundation Leadwerks 3 provides will give us a much much better result when we do get there...good graphics + good art pipeline and gameplay support.

 

2. When will we get more info on the Flowgraph workflow and how they are going to be used in the long run?

The docs are available right now. The concept is pretty simple, you just connect exposed functions from Lua scripts to make objects communicate. We'll have more documented built-in scripts as time goes on.

 

3. Just want to hear directly that Ultimate Unwrap3d is no longer needed ever ever ever ever ever.

It's not needed for import, and we have a few tools like calculating normals, extracting animation sequences, and resizing models, so you probably don't need it. I think UU3D is a pretty good program, personally, but it's not required.

[BES]

Having to stick with multiple 3D tools is old school 3D engine way.

Nowadays a lot support Blender models and animations throught FBX. Unity supports directly Blender models as it converts them behind the scene when you import.

 

LE 3 priority is Mobile what i think is the best strategy, specially for us indies in terms of publishing and market.

So i think for big PC games , lightening, terrain , other features won't be here a bunch of time.

I've gonna with LE 3 for mobile , not for PC.

 

The new workflow and game framework are not comparable to LE2, now we can focus lot more in game making.

 

Well, I think that PC should have still had the priority ...then the mobile devices ..and plug-in support ...but Josh chose this path and I think hes going to stay with it...since he hasnt been listening to a lot of vets here on the forum about how LE3 should have been..

 

 

I hope LE3 eventually turns out to be a badass ...its missing a lot of stuff atm though... I think a new renderer in 9-15months is probably too optimistic no matter how much money josh gets..could be wrong though..

[NarkLord]

I have a few questions regarding navigation. Is it possible to access a path from the navmesh and not use the inbuilt collision avoidance. This would be useful in some scenarios with lots of units and also some gametypes where collision avoidance between characters isn't required but navigation is.

[Josh]

We can retrieve the path info, but that functionality is not presently exposed to the end user. Navigation is not as simple as just following the path exactly, because AI agents have to avoid one another.

[NarkLord]

I think having more navigation info available to tweak would be an advantage in the future and definitely something I would be interested in. I understand that there is pathfinding and then collision avoidance, but being able to sesperate these will allow greater flexibility for different genres. An example could be an RTS that requires less precise and an expensive collision avoidance

[Josh]

Yeah, I agree. You could also calculate the path length and not use it if it's too long, and other stuff.

[NarkLord]

Yea for sure, with such a powerful navigation system I just think being able to drill down a little bit will significantly improve the engines flexibility.

[karmacomposer]

I would like to see terrain back in - LE2's terrain is what sold me (TBH, been a long time supporter of LE and 3DWS). Glad to see the lower price for existing users. Has anyone been able to try the demo on a android or IOS device?

 

I assume standard FPS games (with mouselook) can be made with Leadwerks 3?

 

Mike

[Josh]

Terrain will be added in 3.0:

http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/page/roadmap.html?showbanner=0

 

I assume standard FPS games (with mouselook) can be made with Leadwerks 3?

Someone did it yesterday:

[Guest Red Ocktober]

that was Andy G... first First Person L3 video...

 

The pipeline Blender -> FBX -> FBX2GMF ->

the UU3D pipeline UU3D->Leadwerks .gmf

 

 

--Mike

[karmacomposer]

Based on the roadmap, I will upgrade before April 30. If Leadwerks 3 can be an amalgamation of Leadwerks 2.5 and the new 3 with multi-platform support than it should be a force to be reckoned with.

 

I still like the Leadwerks 2.5 editor better - but I have always loved 3D World Studio, so both tools mashed together should be amazing.

 

Will the platforms always be $99 per platform? Will there be a bundle deal for all platforms?

 

Mike

[Admin]

The full price at the public launch is higher. Leadwerks 2 developers will still be able to purchase at the reduced price through April 30.

[YouGroove]

I think Josh shpuld not hurry up too much and take the time.

 

There are some improvments (i listed some) fro LE 3 editor and documentation before perhaps ?

Android use and installation shoudl become smooth and works in a safer way.

Dynamic Lights don't have color actually for example.

 

I prefer Actual month on improving actual stuuf than moving forward too quickly to eye candy LE 2 style graphics.

 

But yes, putting a highter price, i 'm not sure if people will buy, and graphics i think fo a highter price will be important if price really grows up.

 

************

Good video, level is too small and frame rate seems not so great, video capture ?

I would want to see bigger levels and characters even if not animated, just to see how Much LE3 can handle at same time ?

 

FPS Creator can fear a big comer, specially if people begin to make ennemy AI templates

[gamecreator]

The full price at the public launch is higher. Leadwerks 2 developers will still be able to purchase at the reduced price through April 30.

That makes me wonder: you said the upgrades are estimated to cost around 20-60% of the engine price. Will Leadwerks 2 users get it at a proportional discount if they bought LE3 before April 30th (their engine price)? And I assume that's a % of the base engine price (PC/Mac). Is that correct?

[Marcus]

That makes me wonder: you said the upgrades are estimated to cost around 20-60% of the engine price. Will Leadwerks 2 users get it at a proportional discount if they bought LE3 before April 30th (their engine price)? And I assume that's a % of the base engine price (PC/Mac). Is that correct?

 

I highly doubt that we will get it at 20-60% of the engine price that we paid for LE 2. You should count on it being 20-60% of $999. That is what scares me. I'm a little hesitant about getting LE3 because of it. $200-$600 for an upgrade to 3.1 is pretty steep. 60% upgrade is unheard of. I can't think of a company that charges that much.

[Josh]

I gave a range I felt was broad enough to leave room to make decisions, because a lot of people are expecting me to know the exact future and decide everything on the spur of the moment. There are unknown variables when you are developing software and I'm not prepared to announce the price of software I haven't even started writing.

[BES]

You havent even started yet? ..geez ..thought you were already working on the next update.

[gamecreator]

I gave a range I felt was broad enough to leave room to make decisions, because a lot of people are expecting me to know the exact future and decide everything on the spur of the moment. There are unknown variables when you are developing software and I'm not prepared to announce the price of software I haven't even started writing.

Fair enough. I'll drop the inquiry.

[karmacomposer]

I thought the upgrade was $200 till April 30. Is there hidden costs (other than $99 for both IOS and Android each) other than that? Am I missing something? I don't even get the 20% to 60% being talked about here.

 

Mike

 

The full price at the public launch is higher. Leadwerks 2 developers will still be able to purchase at the reduced price through April 30.

 

What does this mean? Are you saying the $200 is for the beta and there will be additional fees to get the full version? This totally confuses me.

 

Mike

[gamecreator]

There will be features added to the engine that will cost an unknown amount. See the roadmap here:

http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/page/roadmap.html?showbanner=0

[Rastar]

My understanding:

 

LE2 licensees can purchase LE3 at the reduced price of $199 (Win/Mac) and $99 (Android and iOS add-ons) until April 30th, after which the price will return to normal (whatever that is). You're getting the beta right now, as well as the official Leadwerks 3.0 at no additional costs. Features on the roadmap for 3.0 (like terrain) with be supplied as a free update.

 

Future upgrades (3.1, 3.2 etc) will cost an upgrade fee, which is unkown as of now but might fall in the 20-60% range of the license cost (if that's meant to be based on the reduced price or the "normal" price isn't known as well).

[CreativeOcclusion]

Future upgrades (3.1, 3.2 etc) will cost an upgrade fee, which is unkown as of now but might fall in the 20-60% range of the license cost (if that's meant to be based on the reduced price or the "normal" price isn't known as well).

These are the reasons that I have not bought the product...Too much uncertainty...From 3.0 to 3.1 paid upgrade...From 3.1 to 3.2 paid upgrade...And so on...Not good for me personally...I do hope the product does well...