"Make Room" button

[Josh]

I don't think it's the lack of material that's a problem, it's just difficult to find the specific information you want to learn, in the context that's relevant to what you actually want to do. That's one reason we're doing with the FPS tutorial and showing people exactly how to make a good game. However, it will be up to you to take that knowledge and extend it to create something new of your own.

[Pancakes]

I get confused with programming syntax becuase the syntax itself is quite arbitrary. And so when I ask for help I get the impression that many people don't feel it's worth their time to give a good solid answer to the 100th person on the internet to ask them about programming.

 

It also has to do with the fact that I had some wonderful experience with CryEngine. When syntax didn't get in the way I could just apply logic. From that point on I internalized the strong opinoion that flowgraphs were the future of game development. Which I still think they are.

 

I just ask myself whether flowgraphs could be used to make a Mario style game - the answer is yes. Can flowgraphs be used to make a Final Fantasy stle game, the answer is yes. Can flowgraphs be used to make an angry birds game, yes, a metroid or megaman style game? yes The games I want to make don't have complex AI , multiplayer, or the need for the super fancy animation systems.

 

If this...then that. + databases and loops that's what I need. Flowgraphs are up to the task

 

But anyway not to derail the thread =p

[YouGroove]

You can make some Tilling rooms and corridors and assemble them in your modeler as one level to import.

I feel lot more fast and free using Blender and making tlling floor,walls , corridors etc ...

That's where possibilty to import models with 2nd UV and lightmap in LE3 will become super usefull.

 

I would have prefered terrain before CSG : open levels in the fresh air

[Rick]

Just note that doing this doesn't take advantage of model instancing and won't be the most efficient. You'd be better off making those tiled models in your modelling program and then assemble them in LE to take advantage of instancing. Your levels will load faster and take up less memory. For mobile this can make or break your entire game depending on the complexity of it.

[YouGroove]

@Rick :

If a "Real instancing" system is present indeed we can go that way.

But does it works when you also have rotated your instanced models on the scene ?

Does it is really present in LE 3 ?

 

And lightening it in lot of engines "Broken" between neightbour tiles, due to vertex or shaders lighetning.

I tested and had same problem in LE3 with 3D tiles just snapped together on the editor.

Importing as one model and it looked good in LE3 this way.

On some engines, it's better to assemble your 3D tiles as one model in your modeler,the engine will deal with one model instead of managing 200 or 400.

 

On games using 3D tiles for floor , walls etc ... it can be more complicated : TorchLight uses it's own editor , and i've seen that it needs lot more CPU power on a laptop compared to some other games, caus all 3D tiles are processed as models.

 

Some AAA engines, uses instances of 3D tiling Rooms and corridors ( Oblivion game), not all tilling floor and wall 3D pieces.

 

Only testing will show you what is the best solution :

- import one level in one model

- import 3D tilling rooms , corridors

- import sub tilling models : Floor pieces, wall pieces

[BenH_76]

Just note that doing this doesn't take advantage of model instancing and won't be the most efficient. You'd be better off making those tiled models in your modelling program and then assemble them in LE to take advantage of instancing. Your levels will load faster and take up less memory. For mobile this can make or break your entire game depending on the complexity of it.

Yeah but the problem right now is that imported models cant be lightmapped in Leadwerks 3. That is why I requested the 2nd UV map for lightmapping on imported meshes in another thread http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/topic/6523-2nd-uv-set-for-meshes-for-lightmaps/

That is the most important feature request I believe and it would make it so artists never have to use CSG at all if they dont want to.

[Rick]

@BenH_76 can you just use dynamic lighting then?

 

 

But does it works when you also have rotated your instanced models on the scene ?

 

What?? Yes, rotate your instanced models any direction you want and you'll be fine.

[knocks]

Yeah but the problem right now is that imported models cant be lightmapped in Leadwerks 3.

 

Had no idea, that is one major limitation.

 

 

personally best use of csg is for playing what if.

[YouGroove]

This is the interest of CSG, avoid real time shadows in levels, caus shadows are heavy GPU consuming.

Specially if you target Low PC Specs or a wide range of Android mobiles.

Now we have lightmaps and normal maps on them, just need LE3 to be able to lightmap our entire level made of models as we can provide models with 2nd UV.

 

Even better let LE 3 make the second UV by copying the first one and let choose a scaling for 2nd UV; something doable in one click ?

[Rick]

Isn't the new update going to give real-time shadows not at a high cost even on mobile? Isn't that what the blog post was about?

[Mumbles]

CSG is more for building out your level quickly, not for making lots of little details. Polygonal models are good for adding detailed props throughout the scene

 

That's the way I've always done it. Quick mock up the rooms with CSG, because architecturally, most rooms are cuboids, or maybe a central cuboid with smaller cuboids extending from parts of a wall (like a closet or something). Proper polygonal modelling is for putting things in the rooms, like TVs and fans etc. Most real life rooms are boxy, not with rounded corners. Spiral staircases are quite a niche thing. It's not like every building has one...

[BenH_76]

Isn't the new update going to give real-time shadows not at a high cost even on mobile? Isn't that what the blog post was about?

 

If we could get deferred rendering working well on mobile then that would be amazing. But I was just hoping that until that happens we could lightmap imported models. However, if deferred rendering is right around the corner then I will gladly use that instead of lightmapping.

[YouGroove]

With deffered rendering you will target tablets and powerfull phones, not any low cost android tablet or phone.

Even some devices have not enougth advanced GPU.

I think people will have the choice for fast game using lightmapping and great results, and this way avoid shadows on level to keep all saved power for other stuff.

Anyway , i would like fast shadows also

[karmacomposer]

Wall thickness becomes important when doorways and windows are needed. I'd like to know more about the downside of modelling a level entirely in Modo and then bringing it into LE3 for use - will collisions work properly? How about lighting and physics? This is how I planned on created very complex levels. The built in editor, at the moment, is good for simple stuff, but very complex modelling would take 4ever!

 

Mike

[Josh]

Constructive solid geometry has the following advantages:

• Efficiency: Unique (per-map) geometry is made once with CSG brushes. Detailed geometry is made in a modeling program and instanced throughout the scene, so the more time-consuming objects get used repeatedly.
  
• No need to model a physics shape for the geometry. The visual and physical geometry are the same. You can take a model, generate a physics shape from the polygon mesh, then apply that shape to the model, but you're basically duplicating what CSG does automatically.
  
• It's possible to do things like different sound footsteps by material (not yet, but soon) based on which material is applied to the collided surface. With model / physics geometry this gets rather tricky.
  
• It opens up a new position in the production chain. The map artist doesn't have to be an expert modeler, but he can create game levels using the materials and models the game artists have created.
  
• And then finally there's the advantages of having the AI navigation respond as you work, and being able to switch between the CSG modeling process and the game so quickly. The Leadwerks community project had a lot of friction in there workflow here because they had to wait for an artist to remodel a scene in Blender, then export it again. If they had CSG at the time, anyone in the team could have fixed the problem immediately.
  

[YouGroove]

Lot of games today use 3D tiles and modular 3D pieces (exterior modular houses parts , floor and wall 3D tiles) , you go lot more faster than using any CSG programs , creating details in CSG and trying to adjust UV.

In a modeler you work faster and better caus it's done for that job.

Each people will go the way they prefer at final.

 

Importing our own models to lightmap in LE3 will be i think a bigger step.