panz3r Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Look like Sony's PlayStation 4 Is Running Modified FreeBSD 9. As leadwerks come to linux I am wondering how hard would be to add export to PS4 http://www.vgleaks.com/some-details-about-playstation-4-os-development/ Looking at irrlicht implementation for ps4 i could find this: "all he had to do was replace irrlicht’s OpenGL calls with calls from the PS4 SDK" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Kill Kenny Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Link to the information about irrlicht? Usually the difficulty getting on console is more about becoming an approved developer which is tough. Then forking out a tonne for a debug console. Even if Leadwerks became a registered Playstation developer to make Leadwerks for PS4 then each individual person / company making a game with Leadwerks for Playstation would also needs to be approved. Although they are trying to be nicer to indie's these days they aren't going to let just anyone litter their games on the PS4 willy nilly. There will still be a quality process even if it is a little less strict. To become approved you need to have a working demo, proof of finance, be a legal entity and submit your / your team's CV + other stuff just as a pre-requisite to applying to be a registered Playstation developer. So basically before you can even think of developing for PS4 you need to have a decent working demo on PC before you will even get your hands on the SDK. Getting to that full working demo point is a mission in itself trust me. Anyway just thought I would shed some light on the matter. Don't get me wrong, I love Playstation and one day myself hope to be a registered PS developer but until then there is only one thing worth doing.. Making PC games that will get me / fund my way there. STS - Scarlet Thread Studios AKA: Engineer Ken Fact: Game Development is hard... very bloody hard.. If you are not prepared to accept that.. Please give up now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouGroove Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 So basically before you can even think of developing for PS4 you need to have a decent working demo on PC, before you will even get your hands on the SDK. Getting to that full working demo point is a mission in itself. Indeed , it means had make some working complete demo, and beeing indie people we know the work and mission it means.Specially if you are a lonewolf, and i think theywon't accept bad graphics, and bad design. This is an Irrlicht game , and it has been shown at E3 in a video of indie games on PS4 : http://www.octodadgame.com/octodad/about/ Irrlicht can be good for super super hard core programmers : http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum/./viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48105&start=165 What is lacking a lot is good and complete editor and tools (irredit is jus a simple object placement) Stop toying and make games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tournamentdan Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Link to the information about irrlicht? Usually the difficulty getting on console is more about becoming an approved developer which is tough. Then forking out a tonne for a debug console. Even if Leadwerks became a registered Playstation developer to make Leadwerks for PS4 then each individual person / company making a game with Leadwerks for Playstation would also needs to be approved. Although they are trying to be nicer to indie's these days they aren't going to let just anyone litter their games on the PS4 willy nilly. There will still be a quality process even if it is a little less strict. To become approved you need to have a working demo, proof of finance, be a legal entity and submit your / your team's CV + other stuff just as a pre-requisite to applying to be a registered Playstation developer. So basically before you can even think of developing for PS4 you need to have a decent working demo on PC before you will even get your hands on the SDK. Getting to that full working demo point is a mission in itself trust me. Anyway just thought I would shed some light on the matter. Don't get me wrong, I love Playstation and one day myself hope to be a registered PS developer but until then there is only one thing worth doing.. Making PC games that will get me / fund my way there. I have had this debate here before and the thing about it Ken is. If Leadwerks or any engine supported the consoles, you as a developer would not need to be registered before you built your games. A hobbyist or Indies could build their games not worrying about which OS they were going to port to. Let's just say Ken when you are done with your game. And what if it was good enough to be on PlayStation or xbox? Wouldn't it be nice if your game was good enough you could have the option to port your game to one or both of those consoles so you could meet with them to get approved. And even if they do not approve you. At least you did not need to waste all of that time to port your game to that one console or money to be registered. I hate to name engine names, but you do not see PlayStation or xbox trying to sue or shut down cryengine. Yet in theory, you could develop a game for windows then if good enough easily port to consoles. Consoles are just like any other company. They like to make money. And they will gladly make money off of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panz3r Posted June 24, 2013 Author Share Posted June 24, 2013 Link to the irlicht related info: http://chronologicaldot.wordpress.com/2013/06/12/irrlicht-on-ps4-and-successful-game-characters/ The only reason i mentioned this is that it can be a major surce of income for leadwerks without too much work. 1. There will be linux version, that means a bsd version will be trivial 2. if all it takes on bsd is to replace opengl calls with PS4 sdk calls (probably simillar calls) then should be easy as well conclusion: leadwerks proffit $$$ as game console engines are selling for lots of $$ as far as i am aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouGroove Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 "Consoles are just like any other company. They like to make money. And they will gladly make money off of you." And you'll make money by putting yoru game on their servers also Yes you will not buy some console module and port your game if already it is bad on Windows or mobile. That's good to have their approval, what could be better would be some steam grennlight system on consoles also. Stop toying and make games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Kill Kenny Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 @Panzer: Thanks for the link. @Dan: Using my name in every second sentence like that is condescending and rude. On another note believe whatever the flop you want. I really couldn't give a damn about what you or anyone thinks about my opinion on the matter. I'm just noting the side of the story that is invisible to the rose colored glasses that most people wear. STS - Scarlet Thread Studios AKA: Engineer Ken Fact: Game Development is hard... very bloody hard.. If you are not prepared to accept that.. Please give up now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panz3r Posted June 24, 2013 Author Share Posted June 24, 2013 If irrlicht got approved by Sony i don't see why they would be against Leadwerks honestly. I don;t think sony cares in what the game is made, and if anything more tools to make games the better. From my udnerstanding engine is open gl 2.1 which is roughly directx 9 which is more than enough to make good graphic in games. (dx10 s.cks, and dx11 make the things run faster). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Kill Kenny Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 If irrlicht got approved by Sony i don't see why they would be against Leadwerks honestly. I don;t think sony cares in what the game is made, and if anything more tools to make games the better. From my udnerstanding engine is open gl 2.1 which is roughly directx 9 which is more than enough to make good graphic in games. (dx10 s.cks, and dx11 make the things run faster). I disagree on DX9 and GL2.1 being able to do good graphics especially next gen... but you're entitled to your opinion. Well.. Josh can prove me wrong then... I dare him... if he does then I'm wrong fair and square... if not then I'm right in saying its harder than it seems. We are yet to see exactly how indie friendly Sony's policies will be. However, until a time as all is revealed I'll remain a skeptic on the matter. that's all STS - Scarlet Thread Studios AKA: Engineer Ken Fact: Game Development is hard... very bloody hard.. If you are not prepared to accept that.. Please give up now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panz3r Posted June 24, 2013 Author Share Posted June 24, 2013 I would say as Leadwerks most likey will never get on xbox , Josh can "sell" it to sony as : exclusive to PS4 in console market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouGroove Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 "If irrlicht got approved by Sony i don't see why they would be against Leadwerks honestly." Yep no one said that ? Well , there is Linux, Ouya, and lot fo work on LE3 actually, i'm not sure asking PS4 or XBOX for LE3 to be a good thing actually. I wont' be suprised if i would see PS4 logo or Xbox systems supported by LE3 soon ? What will need LE3 will be skilled game making teams, or a skilled "one man game" makers. If you have lot of platforms, but no game or only few, it will remain hard to become more popular than only popular in the technic side of game making. Stop toying and make games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tournamentdan Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 First off Ken, lose the attiude. You are always the first person in a conversation to get your panties in a twist. I was not being rude or condescending. Simply just replying to your post thus using your name Ken. Twice in a whole floppin paragraph. Everyone knows that there are many hoops to jump through when it comes to geting their game on a console. I am just trying to point out that it would be extremely easier for Indies to get on the consoles if an engine supported them Ken. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouGroove Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Who is named ken here ??? To summarize : Octodad game is not Next Gen, looks more 3D standard and it goes to PS4. Why ? because of great concept, totally original gameplay and playble with PS4 detection movements , where the game is very well suited. And indies 3D games , even great are not specially next gen (TorchLight 2, Elysian Dust etc ...) So yes LE3 can do it. The quetsion would be more : It is really needed to LE3 go PSN or XLBA ? it is enought demand ? not only toyers but teams that make games already ? Stop toying and make games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouGroove Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 "I disagree on DX9 and GL2.1 being able to do good graphics especially next gen" Well with normal maps, specular maps, some glow shader , yes you can make what is called Next Gen, even without super screen effects. Main supre graphics games called Next Gen are not only shaders or screen effects, but rely lot more on features : - detailled characters - top notch vegetation and models - slick UI interfaces - dialog spoken - music/sounds - gameplay LE3 can do Next gen graphics in some measure actually, you can make some complex outdoor scene with normalmpa/specular shaders and super detailled characters. Stop toying and make games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouGroove Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 It's like Ouya, one you have Android , it's not so complicated to go Ouya. Same for PS4 , once you get Linux, PS4 support is not so far away Stop toying and make games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AggrorJorn Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Does it really matter if the support for any would be there? How many of you have actually completed a commercially ready game? I know I haven't. And it will take a lot if time before it happens (if it is even going to). What I am trying to say is: make a game, learn to program, model, texture, design, how to work in teams etc. If you don't, you can wish for all the console support in the world, it would not matter anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panz3r Posted June 24, 2013 Author Share Posted June 24, 2013 "I disagree on DX9 and GL2.1 being able to do good graphics especially next gen... but you're entitled to your opinion." Just from curiosity, what are you missing in dx9 compared to dx10 and dx11 ? Does it really matter if the support for any would be there? How many of you have actually completed a commercially ready game? I know I haven't. And it will take a lot if time before it happens (if it is even going to). What I am trying to say is: make a game, learn to program, model, texture, design, how to work in teams etc. If you don't, you can wish for all the console support in the world, it would not matter anyway. Aggror , following the same logic we would not need windows one as well, nobody finished a game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furbolg Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Aggror , following the same logic we would not need windows one as well, nobody finished a game Uhm nope... you ignored the context aggror has made his statement. He says you haven't finished a simple game for windows/mac(/linux) which is quite easier then programming for a console. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeClarke Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I once made "columns" does that count as a simple game Operation Mosquito Recruiting 3d Modeller/Animator. (pm if interested) It is the greatest of all mistakes to do nothing because you can do only a little. Do what you can. - Sydney Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panz3r Posted June 24, 2013 Author Share Posted June 24, 2013 did you read this: "The only reason i mentioned this is that it can be a major surce of income for leadwerks without too much work." ? I am sure there are in this world enough companies that can make games. How about having the support for them ? Also i fail to see how would be more complicate to make the game for ps4 that would be for ouya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 We probably could do it pretty easily, even with the OpenGL 4 renderer. It's more of a business issue. I dislike the traditional consoles because they create a temporary subset of gaming with a lot of artificial barriers. Ultimately, it will be abandoned and you either will lose all your games, or you'll end up with ten different boxes under your TV. My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panz3r Posted June 24, 2013 Author Share Posted June 24, 2013 Sonny seems to be a lot more supportive with indies with PS4, with the online shop maybe at the end of they would not be such a bad ideea to be able to export for PS4. I am sure that beeing able to export on ps4 counts for small companies that chose an engine and don;t have budgets in millions for a game engine. If the game sales is nice to be able to click "build for PS4" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Do they really allow publishing to PS4? Is there anything definitive? My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouGroove Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 This indie game is already on PS4 : Let's see if some good games appears with LE3 before needing to port them on PS4 ? Stop toying and make games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tournamentdan Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I guess this is not really definitive. Sure sounds positive though. http://www.develop-online.net/news/43355/Denny-PS4-will-support-indies#comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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