Character collision custom size.

[YouGroove]

Actually character collision uses always same size, i never seen so restrictive features for character collision anywhere else.

It can't work with several character or monster sizes and shapes in a real game.

 

It is planned in the future to be able to change and have any size for character collision cylinder ?

[YouGroove]

Very missing when not FPS game or not FPS game with same character sizes ( FPS/RPG different characters races, specially bosses characters)

[YouGroove]

LE3 is too much FPS centric compared to others 3D engines, it lacks flexibility on the character controller side.

 

For example i have some ennemy and the character collision is just too bad, specially if you throw object at it , the collision will appear in the air without touching the ennemy visually.

 

Why not proposing to Lua users :

1) a navigation function that would return all navigation points , so we could use navmesh data and use our own collision and physics movement.

2) a new character controller, not FPS centered (no crouch), that would use some adjustable collision capsule or our own collisions.

[gamecreator]

For example i have some ennemy and the character collision is just too bad, specially if you throw object at it , the collision will appear in the air without touching the ennemy visually.

Just regarding this, it might help if you added your own additional collision shape and detected against that instead.

[YouGroove]

Just regarding this, it might help if you added your own additional collision shape and detected against that instead

If you use LE3 character controller you have the cylinder collision and you can't remove it

And throwing any physic objects will collide with the cylinder where there is no character parts visible.

 

LE3 would need to get flexibility about Character controller collision, or some option to disable character controller collision to use our own. It is too FPS centric today for characters and not suited for other RPG games when it comes to characters collision.

[DerRidda]

LE3 would need to get flexibility about Character controller collision, or some option to disable character controller collision to use our own. It is too FPS centric today for characters and not suited for other RPG games when it comes to characters collision.

 

I agree, you can't even implement a proper crouch with that even in an FPS. It should really allow more adjustments.

[Skrakle]

All this time i thought the problem was with my model.

 

I wonder if we can simply use/implement a AABB for characters and use pick.

[gamecreator]

If you use LE3 character controller you have the cylinder collision and you can't remove it

And throwing any physic objects will collide with the cylinder where there is no character parts visible.

I wonder if this might be easy for Josh to change - to have the character collision detection be customizable like other collision shapes. Just as a temporary solution. Then you can parent and use your own collision shape as needed.

[YouGroove]

I wonder if this might be easy for Josh to change - to have the character collision detection be customizable like other collision shapes

He can easy make two solutions :

 

1) Access to Navmesh path points

Give us a function returning the navemesh vertex data table.

And we will use it with our own character sizes and collisions, we will make our own character physic movement.

So we could simply use any physic shape and use our own radius and specific collision shape.

 

2) A simplified character controller without size restriction.

A simplified character controller that won't care about collision, but that will only does it's job : make the character navigate on the navmesh.

 

 

I agree, you can't even implement a proper crouch with that even in an FPS. It should really allow more adjustments.

If your game is not some FPS and contains animals, creatures of any size, the actual LE3 character controller is not usable.

Beginning the Voxel game style, i just found that this very old character controller is just too much restricted and make it not possible (see my picture above).

[gamecreator]

A simplified character controller that won't care about collision, but that will only does it's job : make the character navigate on the navmesh.

It would be a nice option to assume a really really small width and height. It would still meet the single-navigation mesh Josh was concerned about before.

http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/topic/7958-navigation-without-physics/#entry63204

Of course, you could fit characters under door cracks but sometimes that's not a concern.

 

And I wonder how hard it would be to allow this to be done in Lua

http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/topic/7958-navigation-without-physics/#entry62851

[YouGroove]

Of course, you could fit characters under door cracks but sometimes that's not a concern.

If you make some open world or RPG game you will never have door cracks problems , specially if you use the Skyrim formula where indoor are loaded maps.

 

And I wonder how hard it would be to allow this to be done in Lua

http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/topic/7958-navigation-without-physics/#entry62851

Yes the FindPath() would be usefull in Lua.

And for beginners a new character controller allowing any physic size.

 

Most people are making FPS games in LE3 , so i think only few of us are disappointed with LE3 character controller rigid limitations (and we can only prototype on another 3D engine for characters, monsters etc ... and any collision sizes).

[DerRidda]

Seeing what Josh wrote in the topic you linked: I don't see how multiple nav meshes would be a problem. It's not like there would be a need for a lot of them, every object that doesn't have a nav mesh specific to its size would just use the next 'larger' one.

 

A traditional FPS would need only two to three at tops, one for crouched and one for standing and maybe one for prone.

And that's only if you want to let the AI even use these height levels for navigation as well, which a lot of games don't. (Just think about how many fps you have played where AI can't follow you into air vents. The answer is "almost all of them".)

 

Is it even that expensive to have multiple nav meshes in your game after they have been generated? (Which afaik is the actual expensive part)

 

Josh, just think about this, you have literally made it impossible to properly implement crouching. I don't think you want that.

 

I think the first best step would be to allow for re-sizing of the character control shape between tomorrow and Friday until the nav mesh is figured out everything just uses the default one. Every object that is smaller would already be able to move opening up a ton of use cases already.

[YouGroove]

A traditional FPS would need only two to three at tops, one for crouched and one for standing and maybe one for prone.

And that's only if you want to let the AI even use these height levels for navigation as well, which a lot of games don't. (Just think about how many fps you have played where AI can't follow you into air vents. The answer is "almost all of them".)

I'm not making FPS games, i don't need crouch , read again

If you don't see what is character custom collisions and using a navmesh independent of character collisions and size , jut take a look how it is done on Unity for example and how people manage that.

Anyway it's just a very old topic and only a pure suggestion, i dig it up because making the voxel style game prototype i encountered the same old problem that LE3 has with character collisions.

It's just a suggestion , nothing very needed as people make games in LE3 without any problem, so it's just a small personnal wish

[DerRidda]

I'm not making FPS games, i don't need crouch , read again

 

I wasn't talking about your issue in particular, I'm talking about the issue in general, of course your use case is another valid example: You can't make the game work the way you want it to through no fault of your own because of an arbitrary engine limitation.

 

This, in my opinion, is beyond any other issues (such as bugs) the reason that would drive me away from an engine in no time:

A design decision that actively gets in the way of me (and anyone else for that matter) doing what I want to do.

[Einlander]

Source engine AI follows you into vents. Left 4 dead 2,Dark Carnival campaign, map 3

[beo6]

i have issues with limitations of the pathfinding/Character controller since nearly day 1 of LE 3.

The pathfinding/character controller is not just one part that got limited in later versions of LE (the removed dynamic navmesh generation), it was also one of the most limited parts in the first place.

 

Don´t understand me wrong. I am not whining about it, i already mentioned this often enough.

It is just something that would really need more attention in my (and obviously others) opinion.

[Marcousik]

please check this I made today:

 

 

The sphere could be any size...