Poly count, retopo, UV seams?

[SlipperyBrick]

Just a quick post, I am looking for some information on the topics in the title. I am trying to figure out the best methods on estimating poly count for models to use in games. Is there any guidelines for this or is it mainly guess work?

 

Also I would like to know (mainly from 3D - Coat users), have you guys got any good methods on the most efficient ways to retopo a model? Such as edge flow? Would this be a case of just following the shape of your model as accurate as you can?

 

I also struggle marking seams for UV's sometimes. I can spend hours looking at a model I've made and try and figure out the best way to cut it but eventually give up and go crazy on it

 

Any methods on the above I would be grateful

[Patrick]

The polycount is definable by many variables so there isn't really a set goal so to speak, its more based on the project goals as such. From what I know about Phobia. For a character I would say that a good poly count could be anywhere from 8,000 (tris) to 16,000 (tris) as there won't be a great deal of characters or other such things on screen at once and a lot of the environmental pieces will be heavily detailed by textures/materials. This should be a nice target to stick within I think. Anything more could be overkill, as a lot of detail here can be help within a texture and the atmosphere is also quite grim and dark too.

 

As for edge flow, its more important than anything with game character models, it will determine how well the character will deform when rigged and is even more so important with game characters as the rig is in some cases more so limited than with a production rig.

 

So long as you stick to the important anatomical flow of the human body you should be ok with the edge flow but it will take some practice before you get to something that is near perfect. It also takes some knowledge of anatomy and other such similar topics, Polycount has a good few posts on edge flow for game characters, but there are suggested paths for lower poly characters to deform well and then the higher end which you're obviously able to do more with.

 

I have a lot less experience with UV related topics, but I typically workout which part of my mesh is less visible to the player in most cases and direct my seams there, 3D-Coat is a god send with the auto unwrap features being as good as they are, you just need to learn how to inform it of what you want. This may help you in terms of how to cut the UV islands though... http://cgi.tutsplus.com/articles/game-character-creation-series-kila-chapter-3-uv-mapping--cg-26754

 

I hope it helps a little mate

 

 

Regards

Patrick

[DudeAwesome]

I think the best and fastest way is using tesselation for models. So you dont have to care about the polycount and have to edit the models all the time and do the reimport stuff again and again. just increase the tesselation.

 

I would like to quote mitchel from valve here:

 

Jason Mitchell von Valve: „Uns interessiert die Möglichkeit, Objekte zu erstellen, die auf- und abwärts skaliert werden können. Wir wollen ein Modell einmal erstellen und es dann auf Filmqualität skalieren können… und andererseits soll die Qualität von Objekten abwärts skaliert werden können, um das Rendern in Echtzeit auf möglichst vielen Systemen zu ermöglichen. "

 

my translation:

 

Jason Mitchel valve: "We are interested in the opportunity to create objects that can be scaled up and down. We like to create a model once to scale it up to cinema quality.... otherwise it should be possible to scale down the quality to render the objects in realtime for much systems as possible.

 

source: http://www.nvidia.de/object/tessellation_de.html

 

 

edit:

 

also take a look into Rastars awesome work with a terrain tesselation. so the terrain is upscaled all the time in your area but the area far far away is downscaled.

blog: http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/blog/117/entry-1171-teaser-from-tron-land/

[tjheldna]

Modo has some real nice re-topology tools, however it's not free.

 

As for UVW unwrapping I use this 80%+ of the time. http://www.pullin-shapes.co.uk/page8.htm

 

I export out to .obj then unwrap the import it back in it's quick as to use.

 

 

When in it select the "Select edges" and "Ignore backfacing" then go around your model using "c" to cut or "w" to "weld"

 

 

When you bring it back into your modeling program you may want to edit the positioning and scale to make better use of your texture map.

[SlipperyBrick]

Some great links here guys really appreciate it. It's more the methods I was looking for like, how to break down you model into section to know the best ways to cut it for marking seams for UV's. Poly count is a big issue as well because the game myself and my team are developing, we have decided to take a modular approach to this.

 

I think I need a general understanding of what is classed as a high poly count, I know that most engines triangulate the poly's on a mesh for things like lighting and shadowing and a high poly model would cause performance issues in respect to that. I want to make sure that my models are efficient and low poly.

 

I am hoping to start uploading models and textures to the new Steam Workshop beta as well and I want to make sure that I am giving users high quality to use in their games as well.

 

Edit: http://wiki.polycount.com/PolygonCount

 

Some info here if anyone else is in the same position as me

[DudeAwesome]

not really important but just to have one more information about polygon count. in one of my computer graphical lessons there was a chart that said the polygon count will be increased by 25% per year for AAA Stuff (in relationship with increased hardwarepower)

 

so if 10.000 is a good default value this year, next year its ~ 12.500 and so on

[Patrick]

Road Kill is a great application, I didn't mention i due to the 3d coat request

 

As for what classes as high you have to think about what all is being rendered on the screen at once and in your case with Phobia its a lot less than a fast paced action shooter which would have to have a lot less in certain areas with the graphics side of things. At least to work well on a larger amount of machines.

 

To me personally, I consider 16k tris on the higher end but with single player games such as this its quite fine. For a game that intends on having many more things on screen and going on at once I would try to stick to a 8k tris limit with a fully equipped character.

[YouGroove]

To me personally, I consider 16k tris on the higher end but with single player games such as this its quite fine. For a game that intends on having many more things on screen and going on at once I would try to stick to a 8k tris limit with a fully equipped character.

Good polycount for indie games.

 

For 3D coat, as it has the best retopology tools :

- Use symmetry mirror and quads tools

- Split tool to split a long cylinder with rings

- Draw and rings to quickly retopo arms and legs

 

Some tip :

Instead of using Lines and draw lines for the ring

just toplogy some aproximative cylinder covering whole arm , than use split loops to make the retopo godo on the arm : this is a shortcut i use a lot to work faster.

Yes the best way is to follow edges and have some ideas on how is polygons flow on low poly characters.

 

It was a post where i put lot of links and images about polycount in industry games, but i don't remeber where it is in LE3 site