migizi Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Ok so I'm going to ask, what is potentially, a stupid question. What does the future look like for Leadwerks? I've looked at some of the Steam reviews and people show some concern over the longevity of the engine. I know the company has been around since 2006. I also know that a small team can keep going (C4 engine is still going). I've spent quite a bit of money on engines and other tools with the high hopes. I want to make sure that my investment in Leadwerks will be wise. Linux (editor & build) support is the biggest reason for discovering the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassius Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Well theres no sure way of knowing If your investment in le is future proof but if the Linux version sales look good then no doubt it will be further developed. and the price s good. Quote amd quad core 4 ghz / geforce 660 ti 2gb / win 10 Blender,gimp,silo2,ac3d,,audacity,Hexagon / using c++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouGroove Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I've spent quite a bit of money on engines and other tools with the high hopes. I want to make sure that my investment in Leadwerks will be wise. Linux (editor & build) support is the biggest reason for discovering the engine. What kind of engines ? This is more a matter what you are able to do with 3D Engines and tools. LE3 is very easy to learn and program if you have some good programming base and if you are able to learn caus it has lot of tutorials and code to learn from. What does the future look like for Leadwerks? I've looked at some of the Steam reviews and people show some concern over the longevity of the engine. I know the company has been around since 2006. I also know that a small team can keep going (C4 engine is still going). Like any small indie engine no one can guaranty you what changes could happen, but it seems solid for LE3. You should not worry about LE3 longevity but more about how many years it will take you to make a game Quote Stop toying and make games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digman Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 This is from a artist and not a programmers view based off the 3.1 Standard version. The source SDK would give greater flexibility I would imagine. I am not comparing game engines here just what I like about Leadwerks 3.1 standard version. I am happy with the engine. Leadwerks does make areas easier for the artist which impacts it's future from a artist standpoint. Very easy to import assets into Leadwerks using the FBX format which Leadwerks automatically converts it's own format. Mipmaps generated or not per texture including normal maps. I think the Leadwerks tex files already have the mipmaps created but you have to check generated if want to use them. It is selected by default. Being able to choose flipping of the X or Y channels for your normal maps in the normal map editor window is a big plus... This does not have to be done outside the program. Recalculating your normals for some models using the model editor with the choice of two recalculating methods. Saving models as prefabs then instancing those models. Material per model is very fast to setup. Lights are easy to setup and change colors, strength, view range and what kind of cast shadows are used. Lua is easy for changing some things the artist might need with a few easy code inputs, like running your game in full screen mode to get a good look at your models plus changing the shadow draw distance quality (stages) for the real time Cascaded Shadow Maps. YouGroove has it right in that every game engine has it's strong and weak areas. The lack of current documentation hurts Leadwerks leaving a new user to search the forum or using the docs which are mixed up with 2.5, 3.0 and a tiny bit of 3.1 stuff. Being able to choose a couple of other DDS compression schemes would help as well. Right now, I believe Leadwerks uses the 8,8,8,8 ARGB uncompressed DDS format when converting your texture files. I will not go further as I will write a post about being a new user to the program and what my impressions are, the good and what can I think can be improved for the new artist user. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Ok so I'm going to ask, what is potentially, a stupid question. What does the future look like for Leadwerks? I've looked at some of the Steam reviews and people show some concern over the longevity of the engine. I know the company has been around since 2006. I also know that a small team can keep going (C4 engine is still going). I've spent quite a bit of money on engines and other tools with the high hopes. I want to make sure that my investment in Leadwerks will be wise. Linux (editor & build) support is the biggest reason for discovering the engine. Leadwerks has been around since 2006 and is experiencing record sales. It was a lot of work to get to this point, but the future looks very bright. Leadwerks leaving a new user to search the forum or using the docs which are mixed up with 2.5, 3.0 and a tiny bit of 3.1 stuff. Where are you seeing this? The documentation is designed for 3.1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digman Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 @ Admin. Maybe it would be better to say detailed Docs and tiny was the wrong word do use... my apologies there. One example of some information that appears no longer current and will confuse new users. I got there by going to Documentation/User Guide/ Workflow/ Lighting. http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/page/documentation/_/user-guide/lighting-r685 The above page should explain what the lights are and what the settings do for each light under the light tab or if some settings do not function for that kind of light. That information could as well be placed under the Special Entities page. This would help a new user who is not familiar with light setups. The functions for each light setting is left up to the new user to figure out... Leadwerks no longer uses baked lightmaps and so far I could not find information on light settings and their function under the light tab. There are other areas that do not give enough information about what the settings do or how to use them. Example.. Look at the shader panel information compared to the others, No picture, no information on the choice of shaders available under the shader's folder. http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/page/documentation/_/user-guide/material-editor-r8 I am not being critical here just pointing some things out... Docs are the hardest areas to keep updated I know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko93 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 ...I've spent quite a bit of money on engines and other tools with the high hopes.... Yeah, same here. Think it is natural that it does not always pay out as expected (lots of work put in, then product discontinued etc). The experience of learning something new itself is kinda valuable tho, imho. As for me, I did go for the LE (steam) C++ edition few days ago. Why so? Because LE provides exactly what I'm looking for. "Non-sandboxed" C++ programming, focus on PC. As a hobbyist, I don't need - and don't want - to obey to all that mobile mumbo-jumbo (believe me, I DID that for a while - but hate it). Also, I believe that with steam integration, workshop and all, LE makers got some good potential to generate income with assets beside the engine - and that is crucial to company survival (again, imho). To me, LE seems to have good potential for the future. And it fits to my needs. This is why I spent money and (even more important) am going to invest my personal time. Not saying this is without risk - getting up in the morning and walking outside every day is too, though. Just my two cents. Your mileage may vary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 @ Admin. Maybe it would be better to say detailed Docs and tiny was the wrong word do use... my apologies there. One example of some information that appears no longer current and will confuse new users. I got there by going to Documentation/User Guide/ Workflow/ Lighting. http://www.leadwerks.com/werkspace/page/documentation/_/user-guide/lighting-r685 Thanks for the info! Regarding, future plans, the mission of Leadwerks is to turn players into makers. Long-term future developments are centered around this idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migizi Posted April 25, 2014 Author Share Posted April 25, 2014 Thanks for all the information guys. I know that each engine has pros and cons. I started on Unity3D about 5 years ago but all the nuances with it made me stop. I also completely ditched Windows around that time. I then proceeded to try a bunch of open source engines (they had no timeframe of supporting OGL 3.2 core profile). I then opted to buy a license for C4 and the way the community acted made me stop using it. Then I went on an evaluation period of a year testing different commercial engines. Unigine was nice but way out of my price point. I also tossed around the idea of WebGL for awhile (love what the future holds for that). I'm currently working on creating a voxel like engine similar to Voxatron. I'm thinking of open sourcing it when I'm done. In the meantime I have ideas that wouldn't fit in that engines scope that I think I could get done with Leadwerks. I also really like that is uses Lua and C++, both of which I use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassius Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Sounds like le 3.1 is the right engine for you. Le2 was fantastic and 3.1 potentially even better. its a great forum too. Quote amd quad core 4 ghz / geforce 660 ti 2gb / win 10 Blender,gimp,silo2,ac3d,,audacity,Hexagon / using c++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempest Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Regarding, future plans, the mission of Leadwerks is to turn players into makers. Long-term future developments are centered around this idea. Always thought of this statement more of a slogan than anything else. What exactly do you mean by that? How is it going to be done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouGroove Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 @Tempest : Some advice : don't make your idea on too long plan terms, see what is available right now in LE3, if it does suits your needs, than don't hesitate and buy it. If something particulary you need just ask it. Quote Stop toying and make games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempest Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 @Tempest : Some advice : don't make your idea on too long plan terms, see what is available right now in LE3, if it does suits your needs, than don't hesitate and buy it. If something particulary you need just ask it. Right now I'm using an older version of LE. I have my reasons for not upgrading. But I ask the question because it's too vague. What posible way is there to turn gamers into developers, when most of them don't have experience in this?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Always thought of this statement more of a slogan than anything else. What exactly do you mean by that? How is it going to be done? Well, it's a good idea to come up with something simple and short that gives your company a reason to exist. But if you don't actually put it into practice, it is just an empty slogan. Without revealing too much too soon, I can tell you the license will become more liberal in the future to allow mods of games made with Leadwerks, so that your own players can make stuff for your game. That decision was a direct result of saying "okay, if this is our mission this is what can be done to further that goal". Companies that don't have some kind of overarching goal like that tend to have trouble deciding what direction to go in, and usually lack a consistent intention to their actions because each decision is made on a case-by-case basis. Quote My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouGroove Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 mods of games made with Leadwerks, so that your own players can make stuff for your game Exists from Doom, Quake periods , nothing really new, i'm a bit disappointed Quote Stop toying and make games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Yes, and that is how I got my start (with Quake). 1 Quote My job is to make tools you love, with the features you want, and performance you can't live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempest Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Well, it's a good idea to come up with something simple and short that gives your company a reason to exist. But if you don't actually put it into practice, it is just an empty slogan. Without revealing too much too soon, I can tell you the license will become more liberal in the future to allow mods of games made with Leadwerks, so that your own players can make stuff for your game. That decision was a direct result of saying "okay, if this is our mission this is what can be done to further that goal". Companies that don't have some kind of overarching goal like that tend to have trouble deciding what direction to go in, and usually lack a consistent intention to their actions because each decision is made on a case-by-case basis. Thanks for the response! It's a lot clearer what your goal is, now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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